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The current limit is 10kW per phase, so 30kW in your case. A 10-12kW system will offset a bill of $1000/qtr.

[iantz Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close iantz]

The solar scheme was the biggest socially disadvantaging initiative that I have ever come across. The impact of solar installations on the electricity costs of those who don't have solar (generally due to not being able to afford it) has been devastating. The FIT that was offered should never have been as high as it was. Whoever did the modelling seriously underestimated the proportion of people who would take it up.

Anyway, with the current FIT I really don't think solar is worth it, but it's only my opinion. If you have a 3KW system, and you're generating around 12kw a day, given the import and export costs are similar now with reduced FIT, you're saving yourself around $280 a quarter. At your current bill, you'd still be around $750 out of pocket each quarter. The system would pay itself off in 5 to ten years depending upon initial cost (payback @1k a year). Electricity costs will rise, but the FIT doesn't have to. So, the proportion of your bill covered will only decrease each year after purchase and price increases. You'll get another 10 or 15 years out of your solar (hopefully) but output deteriorates as the system ages. I read somewhere that they were considered in spec during this period if they were putting out 80% of stated capacity at ten years, but even less at 20 years.

There's a lot of talk about 'return' on solar etc, and that certainly was a factor when the FIT was good. Now, the base rate is less per KW than the purchase price per KW. Most folks borrowed money to pay their solar off (often over 30 years of a mortgage). Interest on that amount was never taken into account in most calculations. If I had the money lying around, I probably would install solar, but I certainly wouldn't borrow to do it now.

You gotta do what's right for you though AJ - so looks like more research for you!

[KAKADAZ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close KAKADAZ]

I sell Solahart PV Systems which consist of SMA Inverters and REC Panels....very good gear. It's not just what you buy though it's also from who (will they still be around post rebates) and who's installing it.

[kieranu Member Find all posts View Profile Close kieranu]

I don't see how it was socially disadvantaging unless you are stating that it gave the best advantage to those from a low social economic group as the subsidies were loaded such that the smaller the unit (and lower the energy consumer you are) the better the subsidy (at one point it was under $2k for a 1.5kw system and over $20k for a 5kw system). At one point subsidies were only available to those earning less than $80k per year. Sure, if you need to rent and are of low economic status and your landlord has opted not to install solar then you could be at a disadvantage but then again you are probably getting enough tax subsidies back that those of higher economic status don't get to compensate. If you are a 'low earner' but a high energy consumer because you are running six plasma TVs at once you have lost my sympathy.

In WA, I was fortunate enough to get my solar installation done in the 12 month period in WA where anyone was eligible for a subsidy and there was a 40c net feed in tariff (plus REBS now at 8.4c). If I had elected to do my kitchen first (I ended up doing it subsequently) then I would have missed out.

Most homeowners could have afforded the $2k by drawing on their mortgage if nothing else and made the money back in half the lifespan of a 10 year net FIT set at 47c or more. The federal government also offered a zero interest $10k loan for environmentally friendly house modifications (insulation, lighting, solar, etc) for a while but admittedly it was badly promoted and was prematurely cancelled by the time I organized to take advantage of it. That would have made the returns on a solar system even more attractive.

Those benefiting from a gross tariff would have an even quicker pay off time. I worked out that even paying $23k for my 6kW system (borrowing over ten times as much and generating less than four times the power) and drawing the money out my mortgage at 6.25% for the ten year feed-in period my cash flow would still be better than not getting the system while keeping the money in my mortgage. By taking advantage of smart power also whereby most of my imported electricity is charged at half the standard rate, the system will pay for itself in less than 5.5 years - for the remaining 4.5 any FIT will be pure profit. With the introduction of an energy rating system for house sales, it should also raise the valuation of my home but this would just be an extra added bonus.

I agree that if the current FIT is under 9c (as it is in WA) then getting a system certainly isn't worth it. I reckon you'd want the feed-in to be at least equal to the equivalent import (again on smart power this could be quite profitable, particularly in summer) for it to be worth doing with a bigger system but for a smaller system it may make sense now. It really depends on your usage and whether you get a net or gross feed-in. Alternatively, with a bigger feed-in tariff the biggest system you could get and still qualify (6 kW of panels with a 5 kW inverter in my case in Perth Metro) would have been the most profitable way to go.

Mind you - with the introduction of the Carbon Tax there will be increased pressure for the government to introduce more incentives for the generation of renewable energy so the FIT may increase again in the future or another form of incentive may be introduced.

Personally, I believe the government should mandate (or penalize the failure to do so) the installation of a minimum 1.5kW system on all new builds so that is in the builder's best interest to incorporate them in the design of new homes.

[kieranu Member Find all posts View Profile Close kieranu]

I sell Solahart PV Systems which consist of SMA Inverters and REC Panels....very good gear. It's not just what you buy though it's also from who (will they still be around post rebates) and who's installing it.

The SMA inverters are very good - there is also the option to extend from the basic warranty at any time during the initial 5 year warranty period for up to 25 years. I'll probably extend mine out to 10 then get a new inverter and batteries once the FIT expires. At the moment it would likely cost on the order of $20k for a battery system to allow an average 25 kwH of consumption (how my wife manages to use this much electricity per day when we have the system we do I'll never know) making the ROI for such a system about 10 years but over the next decade electricity prices will become significantly greater and the technology should become much cheaper.

[KAKADAZ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close KAKADAZ]

Just as a matter of interest my last power bill was $1535, (av 79 units per day) I live on half an acre with bore water pumps, pool, two ducted reverse cycle systems (Old and badly designed at that) with a family of five (wife at home all day etc..When my reverse cycle isnt used for heating or cooling my bill drops to about $700.

I am installing my own 5kw system 2x 2.5kw inverters over two phases of my three phase power with 20 x 245w panels...this sytem should average about 25units of power per day (much more in summer less in winter so average) if my average usage over the year is say 60 units per day 30 during the day 30 at night I will pretty much half my power bill. In WA there is no point feeding into the grid just use what you make during the day to try cancel out your daytime usage, if you have a smart meter get rid of it, it encourages you to use power at night or early morning when your NOT producing your own power.
SO my 25 units a day =$6 a day generation x 365 days a year = $2190 a year savings = 4.5 year pay back IF power doesn't go up in price (hahahahaha) if it does then my payback comes down so realistically about a 3.5 year pay back working on NO FEED IN just using what I make.

[kieranu Member Find all posts View Profile Close kieranu]

Kakadaz, what you say is true if you are not benefitting from the 48.4c feed in tariff as I am. I would much rather use electricity at 14c per unit at night than eating into the energy exported by my panels at 48.4c per unit. For those that only get 8.4c then you are definitely better off not having Smart Power and using as much of your power when you are generating rather than not. But for anyone getting more than 24.9c FIT (as is my case) the opposite applies.

Having said that Kakadaz, if you are a high consumer and reckon you use about 50% of your power during the day and 50% of the night you may still be better off on Smart Power since you will have minimum feedback to the grid most of your daytime usage will be free (from solar generation) and most of your night time usage will be off the grid (which would be 14c with smart power and 24.9c without it). Once you have installed the system you may want to run it for a few months and do the maths. It may be pretty close.

[KAKADAZ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close KAKADAZ]

Kakadaz, what you say is true if you are not benefitting from the 48.4c feed in tariff as I am. I would much rather use electricity at 14c per unit at night than eating into the energy exported by my panels at 48.4c per unit. For those that only get 8.4c then you are definitely better off not having Smart Power and using as much of your power when you are generating rather than not. But for anyone getting more than 24.9c FIT (as is my case) the opposite applies.

100% Correct....when we had 47c here it was buy a decent size system use very little power during the day feed it all in to the grid then use your power at night on a smart meter.....its been fun trying to sell this stuff and keep ahead of govt crap... NOT lol.

[kieranu Member Find all posts View Profile Close kieranu]

Yeah - I do sympathize with you guys (even though I suspect there were some cowboys and system prices were at a bit of a premium during the height of RECs and the feedback tariff) having the rugged pulled out from under you at a moment's notice by the government

[Torrie 72 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Torrie 72]

Ben, I do recall you mentioning you had wind as well when you were here, do you have any advice about wind as well? If its cloudy, chances are its windy so would help to even things out and also produce power at night.

Cheers Andrew

G'day AJ. Yep we have a 1kw 'Whisper' wind turbine mounted on a 12 m base. They are a very good turbine, mine is USA made and is a few years old now and hasn't missed a beat. I should have lowered it to do some routine checks on it by now but it's always been windy when I think of it.
Wind can be a good option for balancing your power generation when it's installed on the right site. We have heaps of room with nothing too close to the turbine to interrupt the wind and more often than not it's windy here. After being away for 3 1/2 weeks the missus said there hadn't been a sunny day since I left but the backup gen had only come on for a few hours during that period due to the fact it had been windy.
There are some really good 1.5 kw turbines available now for less than half what we paid for ours and whilst I'll probably add a few more panels first, I'll definitely be looking closely at another turbine in the future.
Best to get an expert to have a look at your site before you commit.

Cheers, Ben.

[iantz Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close iantz]

Ben - what sort of approval process did you go through for the turbine? I thought councils were quite opposed to them in SA? Got any pics of it?

Ian.

[Torrie 72 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Torrie 72]

G'day Iantz. I didn't have any problems with approval probably because we are rural. The solar guys ( Solar Depot ) took care of the application - if any. I think you may upset the neighbors if you were to stick one of these babies up in your backyard in town.
I would have taken a pic today if it had stopped blowing and raining long enough. Will try again soon.
Cheers, Ben.

[KAKADAZ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close KAKADAZ]

The Roo speakith the truth....Amen

Anything that uses the sun to generate energy for free rather than use expensive fossil fuels makes sense.

[barajak Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close barajak]

It may be harder than you think to use your own solar power without the feed in tariff. In the six weeks ours has been running (July and two weeks in August) we have imported 25kw more than we have exported. The interesting parts of the equation is we use 21kw per day average and we have exported 75% of the solar generated from our 5.7kw system. A five year return is looking good with a buy/sell at the same rate. If I was selling the power at 60c the payback would be 2.5 years. The upside is if you got that tariff you also payed twice the price for the system.

[kieranu Member Find all posts View Profile Close kieranu]

If I was selling the power at 60c the payback would be 2.5 years. The upside is if you got that tariff you also payed twice the price for the system.

Indeed - we paid $23k for 6kW panels with 5kw inverter - these are now going (with lower feed-in) for under $10k. It's a sham.