Traction Control

[joedan Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close joedan]

Here's a techdoc on the ATRAC system....

It's quite deep..

http://classes.engr.arizona.edu/engr498 ... chart3.pdf

[lawrance Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lawrance]

Electronic traction control is both good and bad.

I believe it's more effective than the LSD on the rear axle but the price you will pay is a busted diff centre if you use ETC too much. That's assuming that your CW&P gears remain intact, the stress from the pulsing intervention of traction control on a lifted free spinning wheel will reduce the longevity of the spider gears (aka planetary gears) in the diff centre.

[Matt Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Matt]

i have heard of TC overheating on many occasions..

as vx said.. if used in moderation it is fine, but i dont think its designed to be something to be used excessivly.

There is definite advantages to TC over the LSD system, but if you require something more bullet proof, then lockers are the best option.

on another note, i have also heard of rear air suspension failure on the grande's when used excessivly offroad (not everyday.. but say ever 2nd weekend for a day).. the system crapped itself, and the grande had to get out with the arse sagging on the ground.. damage was done to the fuel tanks because of this.

im a fan of electronics, but when mixed with drivetrains (something you rely heavily on when in remote locations) i wouldnt want it to be my only option.

[Addy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Addy]

Anthing can fail air bags included, however it would sit on the bump stops before the fuel tanks would hit.

[lawrance Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lawrance]

Best to get a VX instead of a Grande for Outback travel then! :wink:

Just in case the air suspension fails after hundreds of kms of corrugations... ops:

[Guest Close Guest]

Its funny, theres so many "stories" of failed airbags on Grande's..

But in reality, how many has there been? I have spoken extensively to Toyota's service and warranty depts. It appears there has been less than 15 in total in Aust? Maybe its just kept very quiet like the tailshaft clunk issue :wink:

One up near birdsville, way overloaded on bad corrugations.
Another couple where they overextended the rear substantially and forced the bags out.. (ATS airbag retainers stop this)..
And the much publicised fuel tank guy, who seemed to post extensively about how disgruntled he appeared and maybe just wanted to get back at Toyota.. (Sold his prado straight away I understand?) From what I deduced he maybe should have maybe attempted some on the spot repairs instead of dragging its off the rocks before trying to fix it?

I guess you could always take bets on is your diff going to fail before the airbags :P LOL! I know where my money is!!

Guess you have to remember just how many vehicles run on Airbags, Buses, Semi's Trucks, Trains etc etc. They are a lot more reliable than most people think.

We have a fair few members here and on Lcool forums, You would think if they were that unreliable and worrysome offroad that we would have heard a lot more about them by now?

Myself, I have overextended mine Dozens of times, and loaded it up and tackled hundreds (thousands?) of Kms of corrugations and sandy tracks. Not one issue to date.
(Yes, I have ATS 4x4 airbag retainers fitted as a precaution).

[lawrance Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lawrance]

Sure, the airbags in the rear suspension are probably less likely to fail compared to the rear diff, but it *is* another thing that potentially can let you down (no pun intended).

Trucks have had air suspension yes, but they do have a number of them so if one fails, it's not the end of the trip. A failed compressor could spell the end of a trip that took 6 months of planning.

[Guest Close Guest]

A punctured radiator could also end a trip just as quick....I know of many Grande's and other air equipped vehicles that do quite regular off road stuff and survive.
Like I said, everyone seems quick to rubbish them and tell stories of all the failures, but there actually appears to be bugger all actual cases in reality?

Urban myth maybe?

[Matt Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Matt]

A punctured radiator could also end a trip just as quick....I know of many Grande's and other air equipped vehicles that do quite regular off road stuff and survive.
Like I said, everyone seems quick to rubbish them and tell stories of all the failures, but there actually appears to be bugger all actual cases in reality?

Urban myth maybe?

there are ways you can prevent the chances of a punctured radiator tho.. bullbars, and mesh, bash plates as well..


there may be bugger all.. but personally, i think they are more suited to the city and occasional off road situations, and not for extended outback travel.

[Indy Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Indy]

Just on traction control overheating, I did a sand driving course with one of the Brissy mobs on Bribie Island a few weeks ago. Apparently on the previous course the vehicles had been delayed in getting access to the beach because the police and fire brigade were in the way.

It turns out that a couple in their relatively new Prado had spent a good bit of time cruising along the beach. Not fully understanding the function of traction control, they engaged it thinking it would assist them in the sand conditions and left it on even when they were cruising on hard packed sand at relatively high speeds.

As they were leaving the beach they noticed smoke coming from under their vehicle. They immediately stopped and exited the vehicle to see what was wrong. The poor Prado burst in to flames and was totally incinerated before anyone could do anything about it - a total write off.

I don't have traction control on the 03 GXL but this story will sure stick in my mind if I ever get it. Like any other vehicle system you need to know when and where to use it and its operating limits - a bit of knowlege could just save a lot of heartache.

Indy

[Addy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Addy]

A lot of this would have to be hearsay as i have driven in sand with no problems at all.
The warning light would come on the dash before this should happen.
Ask team piggy he has stated somewhere that he was on the sand and lights flashed. Let the tyres down and didn't have any more problems, or could have been transmission light, any way i very much doubt that the system would allow it to get that hot before warning or shutting down.

[Indy Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Indy]

http://svc002.wic477dp.server-web.com/F ... today.aspx

[lawrance Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lawrance]

I seriously doubt it's because of overheated brakes that the Prado would burst into flames. The ABS modulator would have a built in overheat protection. After all, Land Rover has had it in the DII back 7 years ago in 1999 and Mitsubishi Pajero's TC also has an overheat shutoff. Basically when the ABS modulator starts getting too hot, the traction control capabilities just turn off to prevent the modulator from burning up.

I suspect this car that burnt down has got some dried grass caught up underneath near the catalytic converter. Even though they were driving on the beach, the grass could have been caught in the drive heading in towards the sand from inland. And since it is a petrol vehicle, the cats would have been super hot if the vehicle had been working hard in the sand.

[Fazza Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Fazza]

We may never know the real out come as to why the Prado became such a burning attraction but I must agree with Lawrance, doubt brakes as the cause of a fire.

Like to see the insurance report! or Toyota warranty claim.
What was the outcome???

Cheers,
Fazza.

[Guest Close Guest]

Anyone with a Prado 120 with TC knows: You Cant turn it on & Off at will..... This is so in the Grande? Others models are the same I believe?

I have done hundreds of Kms thru all types of sand and have not had any issues with TC before, it works as it does, and when working the dash light will indicate low traction..

I would say it was an issue as suggested, grass, handbrake left on (oops), Auto trans overheat & fire, but certainly not a normally functioning Traction Control system.

The issue I had was on a very soft sand beach, with Tide coming in so couldnt afford the risk to air down halfway along. The AUTO TRANS O/T (over temp) light flashed , I pulled over a minute later in a dune and let it idle for 5 mins, whilst airing down, problem gone.