Blocking EGR

[Chip It Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chip It]

Just a note on these. I have a small quality (50x) of Provent style Oil Catch Cans. These are on sale for $160.00 plus $18.00 freight.

They are a Chip Tuning Brand but same as the Provent 200

The reason we stock these is because the outlet/inlet are the same size as the factory diameter. Oil catch cans from eBay etc with reducers to take them to a much smaller diameter inlet can pressurise the sump and cause oil to weep from the crank seals etc.

If you forum members are interested I will do a forum special of 20% off for a limited time.

Item Code is HP200

I will stick this up on the reseller area a little later

Cheers

[Chip It Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chip It]

DOUBLE POST. Mods please delete. Thanks

[winniliss Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close winniliss]

Just a note on these. I have a small quality (50x) of Provent style Oil Catch Cans. These are on sale for $160.00 plus $18.00 freight.

They are a Chip Tuning Brand but same as the Provent 200

The reason we stock these is because the outlet/inlet are the same size as the factory diameter. Oil catch cans from eBay etc with reducers to take them to a much smaller diameter inlet can pressurise the sump and cause oil to weep from the crank seals etc.

If you forum members are interested I will do a forum special of 20% off for a limited time.

Item Code is HP200

I will stick this up on the reseller area a little later

Cheers

Photos please...

[Chip It Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chip It]

Click here to see product in store

[ondaboat Coopers Pale Ale Find all posts View Profile Close ondaboat]

How much for replacement filters

[Chip It Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chip It]

I placed them up at the store.

Click here

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

How often do the filters need to be replaced?

[Chip It Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chip It]

same as the Mann Provent type ... about 20-25K KMS. But if you are careful they can be washed.

[Chip It Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chip It]

lets start another thread please re these ... don't want to hog this EGR thread.



150 Series here

120 Series here

[Steve-Kylie 120 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve-Kylie 120]

Might be a silly question but it seems logical.

As we know most catch cans trap most of the oil mist and return partially clean air to the intake.

But what if i had 2 catch can setups with different levels of filtering.

For arguments sake 1st can catches roughly 70% and second can getting another 20-25%.

Surely that would be better then 1 c/can or nothing at all would it?

[Chip It Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chip It]

with the unit we sell, its just not needed. The filtration is really high Steve

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

There seems to be a bit of misunderstanding here with regards to what the catch can actually is intended to do.

The catch can is not intended to filter oil, the condition of the filter (cleanliness) with depend on how mutch blowby has contaminated the oil. The amount of blowby will depend on the age of the motor and how hard it has been working.

Others have also mentioned misting, lets look at this aspect, oil evaporates at a very high temperature, therefore you are not going to condense oil by keeping the catch can cool as there is unlikley to be oil vapour in the gas flow, you will however possibly condense water vapor out but this is not what we are trying to stop. What the catch can is actual trapping is small droplets of oil generated by the valve gear etc that is moving in the pulsating airflow in and out of the motor generated by the piston moving up and down. I haven't looked in my Prado but in the petrol versions of Toyota's I have owned there was an oil trap to stop oil from exiting the motor via the PCV valve, a diesel doesn't need a PCV valve but I suspect there would also be a trap where the PCV hose connects to the rocker cover on the diesels but it appears it is not very effective. The purpose of the catch can is to trap the oil droplets and not "vapour" and to this purpose it is probably beneficial if the Provent actually retains some heat (most likely why its made of plastic) to keep the oil trapped by the filter moving down through the filter medium and to drain quickly.

For those that are collecting large amounts of oil in the catch can I would be looking at the condition of your compressing rings as obviously it is not normal for the motor to loose a lot of oil via the PCV system, the reason the Provent can be plumbed back into the crank case is not because a lot of oil expected to be caught, it is purely to minimise the maintenance required.

Well that's the way i see it.

Cheers
LeighW

[pradopuck Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close pradopuck]

pradopuck

2008 D4D Grande

I know this is an old post but the information you have given here is very helpful. I will be fitting the catch can this weekend.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

We need to remember the EGR system is there to quench the temps and reduce NOx at cruise. It is not there to help save fuel. The ECU is not reducing fuel flow (this can be confirmed by watching injector PW on an oscilloscope. The fuel is still needed to turn the engine over at a desired (driver induced) torque setting. It is this fuel that gives the EGR the pressure needed to head into the ait intake. Of course less fuel would mean less turbo pressure too.

You cannot have fuel heading into the combustion chamber to give the desired power increase without the turbo spooling. The spooling creates a positive pressure but the manufacturer does not want this pressure to overcome the EGR so they blank it off via throttle valve. The turbo pressure is just kept at bay (measurable by boost gauge BEFORE the throttle valve. Again remember that pressure seen by the ECU is downstream of the throttle valve (at the MAP sensor) is MOSTLY EGR pressure. You can prove this by blanking the EGR and noting the pressure at the MAP sensor. Whereby right at that stage the CEL will come on since the MAP sensor should be reading around 4psi (from EGR, not fresh air from the turbo)

Only a very small amount of turbo pressure is let into the manifold (and to the MAP sensor) from the turbo. But is precisely this FRESH AIR that we want to be available for efficient combustion. Efficient combustion means HOTTER burning. Hotter burning produces NOx. This is where the manufacturer is being tested for reduced emissions. So they have a problem. They flood the combustion chamber with Exhaust to snuff out the flame somewhat (remember the diesel engine works on the principle of auxillery air. Meaning the oxygen has not completely been consumed during combustion... unlike the petrol engine where it is almost 100% consumed.) This extra air is in the exhaust so it does burn "again". But the less oxygen gives the manufacturer less temp and gives the manufacturer a TICK from the Euro Drive Cycle Test. IE they get to sell the engine in that country.

At WOT the EGR is CLOSED Why? Because the emission test is not conducted at WOT and the manufacture is given the "permission" to produce AS HOT AN COMBUSTION TEMP/POWER AS THEY WANT. (not angry here... just trying to make the point that if EGR System was there to cool combustion for engine safety, the manufacturer is closing the EGR System right at the time it is needed the most when the EGT's are MUCH hotter than at cruise (when the EGR System is open)

The manufacturer is NOT allowed to dump (vent) the turbo pressure externally so they just allow the turbo to suffer in silence. (and are not concerned so it seems. When the EGR System (emission test) is closed, the throttle valve is allowed to open fully and the pressure to the MAP sensor (and combustion chamber) is taken over by the fresh air pressure of the turbo.

Speaking purely from a performance perspective, we want the engine to burn with clean, fresh air ALL THE TIME. We don't want the EGR to flood the combustion chamber with oxygen depleted air AT ALL.

Having 100% fresh filtered air (from the and intake and turbo) produces MORE fuel efficiency (but would fail the emissions test so you don't get it have it)

Again, speaking purely from a performance viewpoint ... BUGGER THE EMISSIONS! Give me power/efficiency.

By drilling the throttle plate with 12mm hole and FULLY blanking the EGR, this is what we achieve. And the MAP sensor doesn't know it is measuring fresh air pressure rather than the engine's own crap, ie EGR, pressure.

In this Skywalkerrun, the EGR is there ONLY as a emissions control system. Not an engine protectant and not there to relieve the turbo from back pressure wave IMHO.

One rotation of the crank shaft with the intake valve open will certainly and quickly reduce the turbo pressure so that it does not cause this backward pressure wave. (not on a petrol engine but on a diesel) Also, as I recall on our modern diesel that at snap close throttle the throttle valve is closed so any build up of pressure CANNOT escape through the EGR. (EGR port is downstream from the throttle valve)

Your second question: The fault code is insufficient manifold pressure at cruise. Not insufficient turbo pressure but EGR. And to make it harder to defeat, the blighters at Toyota have placed a pressure switch in the EGR System to monitor EGR pressure. So you get another fault code being thrown up when you blank it completely for low EGR flow. No other car that I know of (out of all the garden variety cars in Australia) has this additional sensor. (garden variety as in normal Jap cars. I happen to love the D4D 4 and V8 engines from Toyota)

by drilling the manifold (this is just the way I do it) I give the MAP sensor and EGR pressure switch the pressure they require to remain fault free.

Q3. they fuel now is being burnt "properly" giving more efficiency and giving the driver more fuel economy.

(Dont be under the illusion anybody that the manufacturer is trying its darnedest to give you THE MOST fuel economy. First and foremost is ---- PASS EMISSION TEST --- SELL ENGINES.

Yeah take a look at the triton site ... Makes interesting reading. I learnt a lot from someone else's play time

Hope this helps

Did you see what time I wrote that post? It was at 5.30AM when I posted. I started at 4.45AM.

I really don't have time to write heaps so I will be short.

The EGR IS there too cool but not too cool the engine because it might be too hot for normal operation. IT IS ONLY THERE FOR EMISSIONS. Closed at wide open throttle when the engine is hottest.

In fact, SWR please call me on 0412 304030 so we can discuss over the phone. Much easier for me to discuss back and forth at one time.

Hope you understand this will be more efficient use of time. Just have your post so you can go through it point by point.

Noted that chipping is not for everyone. But those that do Chip their vehicles may not be putting as much weight on the pollution side of things as you do. More power = more exhaust. That's a given.

But that does not stop the hundreds of thousands of users out there that are changing the way their vehicles make power: ie chips, 3" exhausts, sports air filters, larger tyres, fuel additives, etc etc and therefore changing the emissions from the standard engine that was passed to enter the counrty.

Besides which, I guarantee NO engine over 10,000 kms old will pass the emission test that it passed when the manufacturer had it on the test bench for the Euro Drive Cycle Test. None period.

If people really want to save the planet ... buy a bicycle, as the internal combustion engine is producing more emissions than anything else on the planet. Not to mention the pollution created to make the total vehicle in the first place.

BTW. As a side note: I wonder how many people on this forum are PRO the Carbon Tax which wont save a single gram of Carbon since manufacturers will offset their costs with carbon credits purchased from India and China.

Cheers

RR

The EGR system, the VVT System, the Injection system on modern diesels are the same. (Denso and Bosch) The only thing the D4d does differently than all other Jap diesels is that they stick a bloody pressure switch in the EGR system. This switch and the MAP sensor not getting enough pressure (from anywhere) is what cause the CEL to come on.

We have tested on over 100's of vehicles. We are not talking about opinions here. We started on Nissans because they had the common factory fault (ie blowing up !!) A special valve system is used to back up the Electronic over vacuum boost solenoid to eliminate boost spikes or turbo overshoot and causing EGTs to rocket skywards.

Now Chip It are working with Mitsu's (because that's what we have) and now the whole newtriton.net forum have blanked off their EGR for starters and many are starting to mod with setups, described below, to backup/bypass the factory VVT.

You should see the results we get when we disable the factory electronic over vacuum solenoid, working the VVT, making it work faster and come on earlier / harder. The cars are getting off the mark so quickly it is scary and EGTs are LOWER!

The system was first used on Patrols since their EGTs from factory were all over the place. People here may remember the hand grenades the Nissan motors have been. It was all because the VVT set up is crap. We use what is commonly called a Dawes Valve and in cabin bleed valve.

The in-cabin bleed is a needle valve (so can be adjusted on the run as desired) that controls turbo ramp up with the vacuum solenoid bypassed or removed just running the special valve system (called a Dawes Valve). It works by balancing the available vacuum at given RPMs against the actuator arm. We have used the very popular and good quality German made Flutec DV-06 oil valve (Be too expensive for a kit I think as retails around $70 mark! There would be something else out there that would do the job, just has to be very accurate so a fish tank valve won’t cut it. :lol: )

As you may know the Dawes Valve setup works by simply feeding positive boost into the vacuum side of the VGT vacuum actuator to achieve its set tension.

We also play with Dual Dawes Valves. With a dual boost Dawes system, a boost solenoid (just a simple on off air valve) simply cuts the positive boost pressure from a low pressure DV set at (wx) so a high pressure DV activates at its set pressure of (xy.) Solenoid OPEN, means VGT boost checks at (wx) and solenoid CLOSED means boost checks at (xy).
(wx) may be say 18psi, (xy) may be say 25psi.

Depending on the customers set up, ( in some cases dual chips to run separate systems like petrol injection ) one may either use a normal 12v switch, use a dual map switch with a chip or use a channel on our standard DPS chip via a relay. Obviously we need a voltage clamp on the MAP sensor beyond 22psi otherwise you get a CEL here because of excess flow.

How do we initially calibrate the needle bleed valve with the Dawes only set up? Simple. Close the valve fully, start the engine (warm) let it settle to idle then wind the needle valve anticlockwise until the VGT actuator STARTS to move back to its resting position. This will be close to being spot on.

Depending on fuelling and tunes etc, the set up can be refined by adjusting the actuator arm its self, but this arm adjustment part is not for the masses ... it really is for a Chip It dealer.

Best we keep things simple as possible for the masses. I’m even thinking a linear bleed that can’t be tampered with by customers if i can fine such a thing that suits. that way it is pre-set and fixed.

In any case, you can see that we have moved a long way past blanking EGR systems.

We have found bypassing the Electronic over vacuum boost solenoid dramatically reduces the EGT’s with the EGR blanked as the ECU cant choke the intake by reducing the boost under lighter loads in its efforts to increase the EGR.

This is what kills the Nissans.

After a time, after we finish the mods for Mitsu, we will tackle the D4d.

SWR if you have the time, we may be able to help YOU to move this along if you are keen to explore the potential.

I'll post some pics of the MN Triton set up later if you are keen.

Some very informative info.

Cheers.

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

WTF!!.. Has happened to this thread???