diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[Rick NZ Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rick NZ]

HI guys,
I need some help here please.
I have read some very interesting info on this issue regarding injectors and the problems that keep arising with the D4D.
after talking with Adam (ondaboat) I took my Prado 08 model 84000 ks to Toyota for the rattle on cold start
It was left there over night for the cold start test and I was told the following.
Checked at cold start and some rattle evident but not out of ordinary.
Plugged in scan tool and checked injector values - values as follows
No1 0.9
No2 minus 2.1
No3 4.2
No4 minus 3.5
Number 3 and No 4 out of value of minus 3 to plus 3.
Used car Dept approved to replace 2 injectors if client wants replaced.
Parts required 2 x injectors (hitech diesel) + 5 hours labour.
Following parts will be relaced ONLY if required
Rocker cover gasket x 1 (1121330021)
Rocker cover injector seals x2 (2368230020)
Rocker top seals x 2 (2368130010)
Gaskets x 5 (9090430013)
My question is should they only replace 2 injectors? Also yesterday the day I had this done was the last day of used car Warranty before the Toyota extra care warranty kicks in.
Thanks in advance for the feed back,
Regards
Dave

Wow- they are running a huge risk not replacing those 5x gaskets ( they prevent fuel leaking into the crankcase)
No replacement pipes from a dealer is pretty suspect too. FSM details replacing pipes WHENEVER injectors are moved (ie replaced - or seats changed)
Looks like they are going to fit 2x referbished/rebuilt/recond injectors not genuine - mixing and matching injectors

The 1KD-FTV engine runs great when its looked after and has the correct parts fitted
There really are no shortcuts. Major service items can be excessively overpriced if you get parts from Toyota Oz

See the injector pricing thread - I can supply a set of injectors or an injector kit to you that you can have delivery by Friday this week.PM me today to get the ball rolling - I need your VIN# to 100% confirm correct parts

Rick

[Drosey Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Drosey]

Wow- they are running a huge risk not replacing those 5x gaskets ( they prevent fuel leaking into the crankcase)
No replacement pipes from a dealer is pretty suspect too. FSM details replacing pipes WHENEVER injectors are moved (ie replaced - or seats changed)
Looks like they are going to fit 2x referbished/rebuilt/recond injectors not genuine - mixing and matching injectors

The 1KD-FTV engine runs great when its looked after and has the correct parts fitted
There really are no shortcuts. Major service items can be excessively overpriced if you get parts from Toyota Oz

See the injector pricing thread - I can supply a set of injectors or an injector kit to you that you can have delivery by Friday this week.PM me today to get the ball rolling - I need your VIN# to 100% confirm correct parts

Rick

Thanks Rick


I should tell them to order my parts from you

Cheers

[Rick NZ Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rick NZ]

Drosey
lol - maybe I should put a margin on them and sell the to Toyota Aus

Best of luck getting your 120 sorted asap without hassle



Roo,
I send the packages as requested - From memory there have only been two kits shipped in seperate packages ( I still keep the documentation correct tho for customs)
Most kits have been sent as one package - Oz Customs havent charged gst on any of these. Maybe because im not a bussiness and sending them as a personal package they arent worried ??
FWIW - I removed a set of coated seats on fri ( done 60k ) and they were just starting to show signs of breaching the lower seal (heat sink/seat)
The o'ring was still intact and the was very minor carbon between the two seals.
45k is def the max I'd let these seats go for - not worth the risk in the 1KD power plant

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Hi Guys

Time to "rock the boat a bit!" i reckon!! .... Lol

Firstly!.. Thanks Rick for the injector kit that i bought off you!

Secondly! ... I finally fitted my injectors today! (Received them 12-07-13).

Started at 9am and finished at 6pm!! ... That's including completely removing the intake manifold and EGR housing to clean it properly (Gernie and de-greaser) and fit the new injectors with engine de-greased fully assembled engine running and bonnet shut!!

Here is where the boat get rocked! Lol

In doing the whole job from start to finish i only replaced the Injectors with seating washers/ 4 x injector Pipes & 4 x return line washers only and nothing else!... No extra seals gsk no nothing!

Have already driven to Newcastle and back (200km round trip) and runs very smooth without a single leak of any sort!

Lost next to no coolant at all (R&R heat exchange) and idles so smooth that you can hardly see the gearstick move at all!

I will do an engine oil change this week as one injector was fueling really badly so i know the engine oil would have been compromised!

None of the old injector seating washers (Heat shield) had breached at all! (Yes i did replace them!... Lol).

Re-used cam-cover gsk and other seals on the cam cover as was still in good shape!..

I also used my brake bleeder (Vacuum side) so that i could hold the EGR valve open to clean the valve seat properly!. Is now like brand new!

K's to date: 162,411km

Cheers

[gspy4u Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gspy4u]

Finally have some free time to myself. Damn school fete's.

First like to thank again RickNZ for his nice new Injectors and pipes at a great price and he even calls to check how delivery was going as apposed to Toyota Oz the money hungry pigs.

2ndly I like to thank John (##########) for putting them in for me. Had a great time seeing how it was all done and learning things from you so really appreciate it.

The girl is now purring like a happy kitten not to mention it's more clean now than when it came from the factory.

Not a huge difference in power overall as the original Injectors to my disbelieving after nearly 182,000k's were all still within spec during the cold start test. Only number 4 was close to being over but still wasn't so was impressed with that.

It does however sound totally different at idle, has almost no vibration at all is is smooth as ever when driving. It has a bit more pull in the lower rev range and just sounds a lot happier.

Didn't have any blow by thankfully even though it still had the original copper sheets seats whatever they are called (Naughty Mr Toyota). Had some damage to them where you could see they had started to deteriorate and wouldn't have been much more life in them but they held thankfully. The injectors themselves were surprisingly clean and free from most carbon buildup. I take that from the large amount of highway k's we do as apposed to a lot of city driving.
Couldn't believe the crap that comes out of the EGR, elbow, etc. Thought I would find some dinosaur bones in the tar that was in there. Am a catch can convert now for sure as I have no intentions of wanting to clean all that out again in the near future.

Now have totally shiny clean internals, new coolant, Injectors, pipes, seals, etc. Intercooler has been serviced and am almost finished installing the catch can.

Again, thanks heaps John was an enjoyable couple of days.

[Rick NZ Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rick NZ]

LOL - Skywalker - whos boat you trying to rock ? Entirely up to you to replace the parts you see fit .
Personally i wouldnt risk the chance of an oil leak by not replacing the rocker cover gasket . The injector pipe thru seals in the rocker cover are cheap @ $6 ea so I do them to ensure no issues. Each to there own

The steel gaskets - in the ideal world - yes replace, but the do seem to be able to be re-used without issue often more than once

good to see you, Gypsy4u, 05Oiler and a few others have the 316's all fitted up and have peace of mind having the new DLC's injectors installed

Happy motoring

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

@ the Roo!

No attack intended but reading through your thread apparently i am rough?

Not impressed!!

I figure if you want to be open and directive then why not me also!!

Do i have any hidden agendas? ... Absolutely Not!!!... because i do not Run, Own or work in the workshop so i don't have to justify time /Labour or hours and don't make extra money on Extra parts which helps to justify extra labour by the extended parts list!!

So whats the problem here you ask?

Simple!!.. my whole objective of participating of sharing my knowledge on this forum is so that the average Joe blogs does not get sucked into the over-priced work shops that get rich on the un-witting by justifying there over-priced labour and work that the average guy who is not in the game could possible know?

And i can guarantee that that my workmanship is no less the workmanship that yours Roo!... Guarantee it!

According to you "Roo" Quick and officiant is rough and a poor job???? Yeah right!!! What happened to quick/Smart efficient?... Isn't smart quick?

My money is on the guy that respects my wallet/ Gets the job done quick and cheap and most importantly!!!! Done properly the first time around!

I take allot of pride in my work and don't spend half the money that you advise people to spend in the name of "PEACE OF MINED" so what happened to common sense backed up with knowledge and experience?

If people want to pay you "TOP DOLLAR" and TOP HOURS" to get the job done then that's a fair call and there choice of course!.... Choice in today's society is becoming scarce i reckon based on dominated opinion from the industry its self!

What you have to understand is that not everyone is cashed up and can afford to pour unlimited amounts of cash into you or any other workshops pocket based on because you say its the only way!!

The handyman changes everything because he lacks the knowledge to be able to know where to draw the line.

If i was running a shop I'm sure i would want to justify my long hours and the never ending parts list!!.. Big parts list does look good and pulls in respect i know!.. its just the parts and man hours that are the hardest to swallow!!.... Not forgetting the fact that i can make an extra 20 to 30% on parts alone so more parts the better ay!

If i changed my injector pipes every time i touched them i would now be easy over $2,000 out of pocket!

The only reason i changed them this time was because they came with the kit! ... If they would have looked suspect i would have changed them and if they had of leaked i would have changed them!.. But what the hell!! Customer will pay anyway and i can make money on the extra parts and i can justify it Co's i said so on the forum!

If i changed my engine oil to your recommending (Not Toyota's) to date i would have used 224Ltrs of engine oil and not the 112ltrs that Toyota recommends and that's not including oil filters or labour?.. There is a section for extreme engine use in the owners manual but on average at least 75% (Not including mines vehicles) don't even go off road?

Can i safely say that an "EXTRA" fuel filter "can" cause extra noise to the engine based on extra negative draw on the high pressure fuel pump and cause nosier fuel injectors based on delayed fuel supply?

I would have thought that the "MAIN" enemy to the fuel system is "WATER?"... So would the Extra water trap be the smarter move given that it has "NO" restriction on fuel flow?

So re mined me how big the micron size of the fuel filter is then tell how many microns the actual fuel injector jet size is? ..... I got it from the Denso sight so the filtration bit has me beat?.... Resistance fuel flow (Increases negative suction) loads the high pressure pump and makes both the injectors and pump noisy!..... I think???? Could be wrong Hay!

I am clearly not supportive towards the motor industry but more towards the small guy and why he gets pissed and frustrated towards the ever expanding maintenance of the so-called more officiant motor vehicle.

Lets face it!! If cars stuck to there service schedule and jo-bloggs was more wised-up companies like Toyota and you would be struggling to make ends meet! And they are!!

That's exactly why Toyota has invented the loyalty programme hasn't it?... and workshops generate extra work based on "PREVENTATIVE"!... That's the way i see it!

You have your thoughts and opinions and i have mine!

I see it that yours costs more money and is fully justified at the customers expense for which they are happy to pay and my opinion is about saving and still getting the job done properly!

The only difference is you take the money from people and i don't!

I have made claims on what i do and have done and i can assure you i am "NOT" rough or cut corners but more to the point i get the job done properly and efficiently!

I would be more than happy to go all balls out at the customers expense of course at there request but can also save on tight budgets with my knowledge and experience!

ALSO!...... Whats the punt with the inter cooler??? Its squeaky clean on the internal and only "ONE" bumble-bee was stuck in the cooler fin?.... If it was packed with sludge then logically i would clean it but at worst it is usually crank-case oil blow-bye that usually gets dragged through the inter cooler as its being converted back to oil based on the fact that it cools!! .. Thats the whole purpose of the catch can isn't it?... How can the intercooler clog when it is not exposed to sooty exhaust emissions???? .. its just dirty engine oil at most?

I have "NEVER" once seen or heard of anyone making sure that the EGR valve seat is cleaned properly and that is exactly why i mentioned it!

When was the last time anyone took the time to read the "Blocking EGR" thread?.... I'm sure plenty could be learned there and you would also learn quickly why i will not participate any more on that thread!

[Rick NZ Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rick NZ]

Charging labour and making up parts is the way bussiness is done and how workshops survive - I am more than suprised that you do not mark up parts Roo
It has always been the way here with 30% being added to parts supplied to customers ( injector kits I supply to PP members are supplied at my cost plus $50 for packaging and my time running around - however at the worksop get 30% added on )

Skywalker - you must remember that when doing a job in workshop to get the job right and not risk "come backs" is to replace items like rocker cover gaskets - esp on the 1kd where you need to remove many parts to acess it again. Having the freedom to do the job yourself a few times doesnt cost you labour - but doing the job in shop over and over would soon put you out of bussiness

you must be getting killed over there for inj pipes - 4 pipes here is around the $250 NZ mark inc gst

[Baileys Diesel Group Member Find all posts View Profile Close Baileys Diesel Group]

TO be honest, I see both sides of the coin here.
Where parts are cheap enough, you may as well, but as skywalkerun has stated, its not a necessity (but on a car worth 40k...)

Anyway, I know that we have never changed a tappet cover gasket / o'ring / whatever you want to call it. Maybe we're missing some points here, but really, we're yet to see one come off in a bad condition. They've all come off and gone back on Hundreds of vehicles and we're yet to have a single call for oil leaks. now that being said, if you want it changed, change it. just don't go thinking its necessary.

ITs the same with the EGR set-up. Good practice is, that with nearly everything out of the way to replace the injectors, you may as well get in there and clean all this crap out. it does yield the best outcome and its good practice, but its not totally necessary. We offer our clients the choice, a large majority get it done, but not all (some have not long ago had it done, others EGR blocked and so on...).

None of these things are really necessary. Its up to the punter, how much he loves his car Versus how much he loves the greenies (cash - not snot - well hopefully anyway) in his pocket. The amount of time it takes to clean EGR's and intercoolers and all I guess is up to the individual and how padantic they want to be.

Anyway gents, its good to see some more colour in the thread! LOL

[pjorek Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close pjorek]

Here you go, I found one. You can see the five screw design on the back cover and how you have to put in the card.
Link : http://www.ecutool.com/ToyotaLexus-I...rd_2053.html#4
Check it out, John.

I'm still considering buying one of these to do cold start tests myself. Is it easy enough to do ie. someone with half a brain won't stuff anything up?

would be good if someone took some screenshots ie step by step instructions how to do it. Worth a beer or two I reckon

[gxl_d4d Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close gxl_d4d]

I got my cable with a week of ordering.

http://myworld.ebay.com.au/likebuysh...p2047675.l2559

[gxl_d4d Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close gxl_d4d]

The test is easy to do once you get the software installed and select the correct licence.

[winniliss Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close winniliss]

I have found this site http://www.dhgate.com/product/100-or...163949394.html They claim the unit is original.
I have requested a photo of the rear of the unit so I will see how long it takes for them to respond. It doesn't come with a Suzuki card....

I have also posted this in the diagnostic tool thread.

Winston.

[pjorek Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close pjorek]

John the Roo,

So if the link you provided is a no goer, what's the best way to get one of these? Or anything that I can read injector values from.

Cable is a good solution, gxl_d4d is the software free? Easy to throw on XP laptop?

I'd prefer all in one tool that i can throw in my tool bag when we go travelling. But if nothing is available than maybe a cable is the only way to go?

[gxl_d4d Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close gxl_d4d]

Yes the software is free (knock off copy) and comes on a CD with the cable. The software and driver installed no problems on my laptop with WinXP.

John the Roo,

So if the link you provided is a no goer, what's the best way to get one of these? Or anything that I can read injector values from.

Cable is a good solution, gxl_d4d is the software free? Easy to throw on XP laptop?

I'd prefer all in one tool that i can throw in my tool bag when we go travelling. But if nothing is available than maybe a cable is the only way to go?