diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Initially they said that it might be bad fuel before they even had the car. I said that can't be, your (Toyota) fuel system and filters are supposed to prevent that. They quoted $850 each for new OEM injectors.

[r4ndll Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close r4ndll]

Looks like I might be joining the 'caught it just in time' group.

Same here - ringing around for prices now: 06/2008 GXL 120, 96,000km

#1 -2.4
#2 0.6
#3 2.5
#4 -1.1

Inj vol. 16.66

My local diesel place said "over 3 is out of spec but we start to see issues with running rough around 2.5".

Bailey's also recommended replacing. Time to sell a child

Result: 2 injectors out of spec and oil being allowed to leak back into the cylinders. They've quoted $3600 for 4 x recon injectors, plus fuel pipes includes about $650 in labour.

Initially they said that it might be bad fuel before they even had the car. I said that can't be, your (Toyota) fuel system and filters are supposed to prevent that. They quoted $850 each for new OEM injectors.

Daylight robbery - My local diesel service is quoting just over $400 each - Brand new Denso injectors. They quoted me fixed price $3,000 for full fit and replace incl. labour of 4 injectors, new lines, filter and MAF clean. Makes me wonder how many they do to offer it as a fixed standard price?

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

They're on 300 grand a year so they can afford the repair bill.

[YMUS Find all posts View Profile Close YMUS]

All this talk on injectors is spooking me... I just brought a Dec 2008 120 Grande with 168K on the clock a month ago and have done 1780 kl's in it since (9.6litres/100K). I believe it has never been anywhere than the local super market etc. standard and immaculate inside and out. When I bought it, I did ask that the injectors be checked and the response came back they are "good". No numbers etc. (I was unaware of these Injector value tests etc than.). My car doesn't blow any smoke, is relatively quite (and I have hearing aids so ANY diesel sounds noisy to me), has heaps of power, idles well and consistent. I did take the car to Hinterland Toyota Gold Coast to get some minor electrical work done (seat belt light flashing and height adjustor not working) AND I told them to replace all oils in the car - and tell me what they found. They also said looks fine (yeah right is my reaction now) should have done the camera I suppose?)
Sooooo what do you blokes suggest I do to check these little suckers (injectors) out?
Planning big changes for the Grande and lots of touring after all my mods are finalised??

Thanks
Larry D
Ymus

[MRW82 Member Find all posts View Profile Close MRW82]

I had mine checked when I brought it too. Thought it was all good (and it was at the time). Very much the same situation as you, same sort of km's, runs great, no noises, no smoke, feedback values good, sump screen clear... Within 10,000km failed injector resulting in broken engine. Given the amount of injector failure storys lately and the unpredictable way in which mine failed I would stress to everyone with a few km's up on their D4D to spend the money on a set of injectors before your prado owes you $10grand more than its worth.

Oh what a feeling.....

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Guys as mentioned many times previously check the injector feedback values and inspect the sump screen. Be prepared to change the injectors if the values are borderline. Change them as a set if the injectors are out of specification. If you don't know whether the copper seats have been changed out then do that as soon as possible. Fit a catch can and keep an eye on what it catches. Fit a pre filter to the fuel system if you have any doubts about the quality if the fuel you are going to put through it.

[Heath74 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Heath74]

Had Toyota run the test, getting similar values to me on their diagnostic equip. They swear black and blue that they are within spec and I don't need to do anything.

Rare for the dealer not to try and sell you something.

[YMUS Find all posts View Profile Close YMUS]

Fellas come on... am I/we to believe that a car manufacturer can produce an engine that only does 120K-140K kilometres and the engine blows up or at least destroys a major component requiring $3-5K in repairs.
I am totally distraught - I have paid out $40K+ on a car that has almost a guarantee to destroy itself IF i don't put additional filters/change oil every 5000 Kl's etc. etc. seems crazy to me!
Would I be better of selling this Grande diesel and going back to a Land Cruiser - I have not started on the modifications as yet!
Larry D
YMUS

[MRW82 Member Find all posts View Profile Close MRW82]

I used to think there was an element of scaremongering going on. But still monitored my prado closely for any warning signs. Now I know the injector issues are real.

The only thing I could have done to prevent my engine failure would have been to replace the injectors, even though there was no evidence of them being faulty.

[r4ndll Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close r4ndll]

Fellas come on... am I/we to believe that a car manufacturer can produce an engine that only does 120K-140K kilometres and the engine blows up or at least destroys a major component requiring $3-5K in repairs.
I am totally distraught - I have paid out $40K+ on a car that has almost a guarantee to destroy itself IF i don't put additional filters/change oil every 5000 Kl's etc. etc. seems crazy to me!
Would I be better of selling this Grande diesel and going back to a Land Cruiser - I have not started on the modifications as yet!
Larry D
YMUS

I still love my D4D and wouldn't change it for the world.

This has been dicussed ad nauseum before. YOUR car shouldn't destroy itself.

D4D's built from 2008 on SHOULD be OK as that is when they changed the design. Though there is conjecture that some got the old stock on run out. Yours may be fine. Its the old style non-DLC's causing blow by that causes the issues as crap gets into the cylinders. You should be able to find out which you have via your VIN # and asking your dealer. Europe and NZ ran a 'customer satisfaction' recall, Toyota AU didn't.

There are plenty of D4D's running round without much issue, and oblivious owners. I think the percentages of death are probably quite low. On a forum like this you will hear the horror stories. But for a little extra effort you can be much better informed of a potential situation, and better prepared to prevent it.

The reality is injectors are a disposable item and will wear out (I had to do in on my 1982 60 series landcruiser). Recommendations from much more knowledgeable guys than me, on here are that you should be looking to change them at about 120,000-140,000km. If your car was serviced correctly at 160,000 they would have had the injectors out to check the valve clearances and should have checked then. A lot of places don't do this. So I if I were you I would be looking to change them, unless you know for certain that they were done by the previous owner. You'll get a smoother running engine and better fuel economy.

Many owners put the additional filter filter on and do extra oil changes as a precaution. For $40, a secondary 2 micron filter is cheap insurance against Australian bad fuel quality. The outback guys are probably more worried about water contamination than the city guys so would put a water filter on.

I've always done 5,000km oil changes on all my diesels. The job is easy to do yourself, but its not entirely necessary IMO for more modern cars. (I only do about 10,000-12,000km at the moment a year so its a 6 monthly oil change for me)

I have a June 2008 build so am keeping an eye out just in case. I don't NEED to change mine as they are still technically within spec, but probably SHOULD, as two are on the way out compared to the others. I had planned to change mine at 120,000 anyway, but I am nearing 100,000. Mine were visually inspected at the 80,000km service and were OK.

I check my feedback values monthly via a $20 Ebay techstream cable and an 8 year old XP laptop. Ask your service guys to take a look at the sump pick-up every oil change if you are really worried.

In Feb I was showing, -2.1, 1.5, 0.7, -0.5 . This month -2.4, 0.6, 2.5, -1.1 so 1 and 3 are showing signs of going. I have no other symptoms at all. Out of spec is +/-3.

Stuff happens - There was a story on here recently of a brand new Ranger blowing a rear diff at 110km/h.

[pjorek Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close pjorek]

Didn't MLC's 2009 D4d blow up recently? I've read it somewhere. Feedback values, screen sump camera checks are a must. Other than that it might be a pure bad luck when the injector fails itself.

[r4ndll Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close r4ndll]

Didn't MLC's 2009 D4d blow up recently? I've read it somewhere. Feedback values, screen sump camera checks are a must. Other than that it might be a pure bad luck when the injector fails itself.

I don't know what happend to MLC's truck, but there's plenty of ways for an engine to blow up. We had a driver blow a con-rod out the side of an engine once from continually downshifting too early.

My understanding is that its not the injectors failing that causes the damage. The catastrophic failure most talked about is caused by sludging believed to be caused by fuel leakage past the fuel-injector seals into the oil stream. Eventually it can lead to the oil pickup being blocked, which then starves the engine of oil. That's when things go boom.

Those seals should be replaced every 40,000km when the valve clearance check happens, but it seems this isn't being done by some mechanics. Rattle/white smoke/Feedback values and sump blockage are indicators of this issue. Its entirely possible to have engine failure without those because it could be something else causing it.

Prado's have averaged 14,600 sales a year for a decade, Hilux 36,000 - so that 354,200 vehicles sold between 2002-2009. Assume 50% are D4D, asssume 100 failures described above have been reported on this forum - that's still only 0.05% of total D4D sales

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

Apparently the sales of 150 series are more like 85% D4D so there are even more around now.

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

Didn't MLC's 2009 D4d blow up recently? I've read it somewhere. Feedback values, screen sump camera checks are a must. Other than that it might be a pure bad luck when the injector fails itself.

It did.

Unofficially Toyota accepted responsibility and have supplied a new short motor. The dealer is supplying the rest.

Basically number one piston had a hole and was cracked, with number 3 piston in a bad way also. They did a stage by stage breakdown of the motor complete with photos and reports and something they found convinced Toyota to come to the party. The rig was about to get checked in for its 80,000km service....... Talking to the pros suggest injectors can cause this by not spraying a misted fuel?

We can all speculate but at the end of the day I don't think I'm going to know the reason for failure. Given they are replacing the whole engine under and extended dealer warranty and they have been an absolute pleasure to deal with I am very happy in the circumstances. As such, I don't really want absolute answers. The brand new Toyota Corolla supplied while the beast is given a new heart has been an experience in itself.

I think the fact the rig has always been service by them, had a catch can installed in a professional manner, all mods are modest and done professionally and usually improve safety rather than the other way round and I can prove 95% of the fuel purchases are BP Ultimate diesel helped.

I may even get to keep number 1 piston as a momento!

Would I buy a D4D again? I'm not discouraged by the event, maybe in a Hilux and supplied by the dealer that has looked after me. The Prado experience has lead me to want a bigger diesel though and I may opt for a professional rebuild of a 100 or 80 series to make one better than new.

mlc.

[r4ndll Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close r4ndll]

It did.
Would I buy a D4D again? I'm not discouraged by the event, maybe in a Hilux and supplied by the dealer that has looked after me. The Prado experience has lead me to want a bigger diesel though and I may opt for a professional rebuild of a 100 or 80 series to make one better than new.

mlc.

Can I interest you in a 100 series 4.5L V8 D4D conversion sir? I am tempted