diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

It is the engine oil pump pick up screen that you want inspected. Get your mechanic to check the injector feedback values too and make sure the injectors are within range. How many km on the odometer? It is likely that that D4D has the old style injector seats unless they were changed out.

[Heals Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Heals]

Fiji the vehicle has 185000 on the clock . When is the cut off point from 120 series to 150 series?

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

The 120 is the clue. Even some of the early 150s had the old copper uncoated injector seats (apparently). By that time the more robust injectors were being used but injectors are still a consumable and need to be replaced. If the feedback values are out of specification (more than + or - 3.0) then these need to be replaced. Several options which are already mentioned in here and the injector price thread.

[Heals Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Heals]

Thanks Mrrandom.

[awd2.0t Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close awd2.0t]

Checked the injectors via Techstream today and readings are as follows:
Pre start - Cold:
Injection FB Vol idle - 0.00
Injection Vol Learning - 11.09
Injector Feedback Val # 1: -0.4
Injector Feedback Val # 2: 1.0
Injector Feedback Val # 3: 0.7
Injector Feedback Val # 4: -1.8

At start up - Cold:
Injection FB Vol idle: 2.60
Injector Feedback Val # 1: -0.2
Injector Feedback Val # 2: 1.0
Injector Feedback Val # 3: 0.6
Injector Feedback Val # 4: -1.8


After 5-6 minutes:
Injection Vol: 10.80
Injection FB Vol idle: 1.47
Injection Vol Learning: 11.09
Injector Feedback Val # 1: 0.0
Injector Feedback Val # 2: 1.0
Injector Feedback Val # 3: 0.1
Injector Feedback Val # 4: -1.5 to -1.3

Number 4, seems to be the one struggling the most, but hopefully it is still in spec. I look forward to hearing from those more educated.

Cheers,
Sean.

[Baileys Diesel Group Member Find all posts View Profile Close Baileys Diesel Group]

Hey Sean,

Obviously not great, but not the worst either. If you can, rerun the above test and let us know the Injection Volume when the car is fully up to temp and with all accessories off (ie no air conditioning, no radio, no fan...) and we can take it from there. 8.00+ you'll start to see issues, 9.00+ definately.

[gxl_d4d Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close gxl_d4d]

Why does No4 vary so much from the rest. Mine is the same both before and after injector replacement.

Hot Measurements

No1: -0.7
No2: 0.7
No3: 1.0
No4: -1.6
Idle volume: 6.89mm3/st
Inj FB Vol -2.18"

[Baileys Diesel Group Member Find all posts View Profile Close Baileys Diesel Group]

Hi mate,
Personally, i feel that +/-0.8 to 1.0 is perfectly fine and quite normal.
With regards to this reading (and why we don;t like the fact that the entire industry uses it as a bench mark) is that this value corrects for EVERYTHING that may change the idle speed across its firing stroke. Compression (which is more likely caused by valves than rings) plays a massive part in this as well as others.

If the above was my car, or indeed you came to our workshop (and you were not having any of the 'knocking' symptoms) i would definitely not be wasting your money as the idle volume is great, corrections 'ok' and car drives fine.

Anyway, just my two cents

[awd2.0t Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close awd2.0t]

Hey Sean,
Obviously not great, but not the worst either. If you can, rerun the above test and let us know the Injection Volume when the car is fully up to temp and with all accessories off (ie no air conditioning, no radio, no fan...) and we can take it from there. 8.00+ you'll start to see issues, 9.00+ definately.

Thanks Baileys & Co,
I ran the test again over the weekend after comnig back from a drive. I'm not sure whether I interchanged the 3/4 injectors readings from last time or whether it may be normal that they can change like they have.

Either way the Injection Volume seems to be getting up there, so it may be time for replacements. The car is getting it's 80,000 km service done this week, so my plan is to get the sump checked, hold off on the valve clearance check (& have this done when the injectors are replaced) and then re-do the Injector test after the service. I can't imagine it will change the readings, but at least it will be just one more confirmation of the injectors needing to be changed?

With the injectors at the current readings (see below) and if I have the sump screen checked/cleared. Should I still be okay for another 5,000km's? Any ideas how much longer they can run?

Updated warm values at various revs:
1,500 rpm
Injection Vol: 8.76
Injection FB Vol idle: 1.90
Injector Feedback Val # 1: 0.3
Injector Feedback Val # 2: 0.6
Injector Feedback Val # 3: -1.0
Injector Feedback Val # 4: -0.4

1,250 rpm
Injection Vol: 8.3 - 8.5
Injection FB Vol idle: 0.13
Injector Feedback Val # 1: 0.3
Injector Feedback Val # 2: 0.7
Injector Feedback Val # 3: -1.3
Injector Feedback Val # 4: -0.2

1,000 rpm
Injection Vol: 7.94 - 8.04
Injection FB Vol idle: 0.39
Injector Feedback Val # 1: 0.3
Injector Feedback Val # 2: 0.7
Injector Feedback Val # 3: -1.3
Injector Feedback Val # 4: -0.4

At idle
Injection Vol: 8.53 - 9.38
Injection FB Vol idle: 0.31
Injector Feedback Val # 1: 0.3
Injector Feedback Val # 2: 0.7
Injector Feedback Val # 3: -1.5
Injector Feedback Val # 4: -0.2

[Baileys Diesel Group Member Find all posts View Profile Close Baileys Diesel Group]

Morning AWD2.0t
You can definitely get another 5000k's out of them. What we're talking about is proper preventative maintenance, therefore so long as its not really knocking (and if it is, make sure you warm her up before driving off) you should be fine. Its just a case of checking consistently on the tech stream in the meantime, paying attention to the engine noises and then when you can get to it, fixing it then.

Hope this helps mate
Matt

[awd2.0t Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close awd2.0t]

Thanks Matt,
I'll keep an eye on it and start saving for the repairs!
Cheers,
Sean.

[braddo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close braddo]

I've had the cold start rattle for years and have been getting the dealer to check the injectors every 6 months. Today, we left the car parked on a slight downhill slope for an hour or so and when I started it, a lot of white smoke came out with a burnt smell. It cleared fairly quickly and we drove straight home. I'm taking it straight to the dealer first thing in the morning! I am not taking the car home until the injectors, seals and oil pickup screen are all checked and rectified. Hope it's not too costly....

[braddo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close braddo]

The dealer just phoned me and said that injector #1 is out of spec with a feedback value of 5.5 and the oil pickup screen is blocked. They said that the other injectors are in spec and quoted me $1k parts plus $1.1k labour. I hope that this solves the issue.

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Braddo, not sure how many kilometres your rig has done but you would be wise to pay and get the other 3 injectors changed out at the same time. Makes sense while they have the top of the motor open.

[braddo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close braddo]

I asked the service manager and the workshop manager and they assured me that it was not necessary to change all 4 injectors.