Petrol vs Diesel: A 10 year urban running cost comparison

[Whitey]

Except, I don't use a scanguage. Use a pen and paper. I don't do it 'one day', I do it several times on each of our trips. Fuel pricing for us is generally relatively high because the vehicle spends most of its km's where it was actually designed for.

Just because I haven't got 10 years of records, doesn't mean my numbers are wrong. They are just different to Rob's. It's great to have a load of data from one vehicle, but as it comes from a single prado with the same driver then it is not the bible. There is more to the fuel consumption of a vehicle than the date of manufacture and the fuel type.

We'd need data from a whole bunch of petrol and diesel prados if we wanted a fair comparison.

Hey,

Yep, fair call, I'm definitely not saying the model is the bible, but at the very least it's the first historical model I've seen that has quantitative output from real world fuel and economy figures.

I also used to do it the old pen and paper way before I got lazy and bought a scanguage.

It's no problem to adjust the fuel economy numbers in the model. If I used the average from a lot of different numbers, I think the vehicle weight would need to come into the discussion as well.

Best

Mark

[Whitey]

Drive the diesel, if you get sucked in buy one, if its not exciting stick with the 120.

Yeah fuel is cheap so burn it up!!!!!!

Hey ####,

What are your thoughts on the DPF cost wise, do you think it will end up being big bucks outside the service schedule again, like the egr with injectors?

The European experience looks costly so far, extra driving for burn offs, multiple and costly in-house DPF burn offs due to lack of driving, replacements from too much clogging etc etc.

Best

Mark

[photoprado]

It's meaningless to weigh in and just state you get such and such economy because you saw it on the scanguage one day. Historical pricing is the only way to get a meaningful and accurate comparison.

Except, I don't use a scanguage. Use a pen and paper. I don't do it 'one day', I do it several times on each of our trips. Fuel pricing for us is generally relatively high because the vehicle spends most of its km's where it was actually designed for.

Just because I haven't got 10 years of records, doesn't mean my numbers are wrong. They are just different to Rob's. It's great to have a load of data from one vehicle, but as it comes from a single prado with the same driver then it is not the bible. There is more to the fuel consumption of a vehicle than the date of manufacture and the fuel type.

We'd need data from a whole bunch of petrol and diesel prados if we wanted a fair comparison.

[Anth120playdo]

Interesting to see the 30l/100 km in the V6. What the hell are you blokes doing? The worst that mine has ever been was 24l/100 km in the dunes at the top end of the Canning, about the same in the Simpson and about 20 in the High Country. Towing a 1 tonne camper it was 24 l/100 at 100kph into a howling easterly over several days but generally towing the camper is about 19 l/100 km at 100kph with roof rack ,tyre on top etc. As someone mentioned most of your trip will be getting there on a road of some sort. The V6 is very sensitive to your right foot...... flog it and it will drink a lot as will anything BUT travelling with friends in D4Ds in the same conditions they will do about 25-30% better. I have records over about 100,000km for the V6 120 and they show about 16-17 l/100 around town, as low as low 12s on the highway without racks etc and about 15s fully laden with rack with spare on top. All that said I am currently torn between keeping the 120 [ at 150000km and not needing injectors or a clean out] and updating to the new 2.8 and this thread is just adding to the confusion! Horses for courses...... buy what you like but keep in mind that fuel prices are about as low as they will ever be. Neil

Drive the diesel, if you get sucked in buy one, if its not exciting stick with the 120.

Yeah fuel is cheap so burn it up!!!!!!

[Whitey]

Interesting to see the 30l/100 km in the V6. What the hell are you blokes doing? The worst that mine has ever been was 24l/100 km in the dunes at the top end of the Canning, about the same in the Simpson and about 20 in the High Country. Towing a 1 tonne camper it was 24 l/100 at 100kph into a howling easterly over several days but generally towing the camper is about 19 l/100 km at 100kph with roof rack ,tyre on top etc. As someone mentioned most of your trip will be getting there on a road of some sort. The V6 is very sensitive to your right foot...... flog it and it will drink a lot as will anything BUT travelling with friends in D4Ds in the same conditions they will do about 25-30% better. I have records over about 100,000km for the V6 120 and they show about 16-17 l/100 around town, as low as low 12s on the highway without racks etc and about 15s fully laden with rack with spare on top. All that said I am currently torn between keeping the 120 [ at 150000km and not needing injectors or a clean out] and updating to the new 2.8 and this thread is just adding to the confusion! Horses for courses...... buy what you like but keep in mind that fuel prices are about as low as they will ever be. Neil

Hey Neil,

Ok, so the figure of 15.2l/100km (from JGD in post #22) I've used seems reasonable for a "total" driving figure for the V6.

Right in the middle of the Simpson I've had days where the economy will be 30l/100km, but that was with a lot of mucking around, going up old tracks, pushing really hard. My Prado was very heavily loaded for a Brisbane to Perth trip as well, so all that weight and pushing it hard equals 30l/100km in those conditions.

My V6 is at 156000km, and I plan on keeping it for a lot longer!

Hopefully the price of oil will head down to $20/barrel, and we might see fuel at $1.00/litre again!

Best

Mark

[Whitey]

Here is an interesting aside for you, which you may, or may not, have already seen.

Extract from Sunshine Coast Newspaper:

By 2008 80% of Prado sales were diesel, it was 90% in 2012 and this year 98.8% opt for the diesel rather than petrol variant. It's questionable why Toyota still offers a petrol option in its Prado range,

Hey,

Haven't seen that article, do you have a link for it?

...nice avatar btw!

Best

Mark

[404pug]

Interesting to see the 30l/100 km in the V6. What the hell are you blokes doing? The worst that mine has ever been was 24l/100 km in the dunes at the top end of the Canning, about the same in the Simpson and about 20 in the High Country. Towing a 1 tonne camper it was 24 l/100 at 100kph into a howling easterly over several days but generally towing the camper is about 19 l/100 km at 100kph with roof rack ,tyre on top etc. As someone mentioned most of your trip will be getting there on a road of some sort. The V6 is very sensitive to your right foot...... flog it and it will drink a lot as will anything BUT travelling with friends in D4Ds in the same conditions they will do about 25-30% better. I have records over about 100,000km for the V6 120 and they show about 16-17 l/100 around town, as low as low 12s on the highway without racks etc and about 15s fully laden with rack with spare on top. All that said I am currently torn between keeping the 120 [ at 150000km and not needing injectors or a clean out] and updating to the new 2.8 and this thread is just adding to the confusion! Horses for courses...... buy what you like but keep in mind that fuel prices are about as low as they will ever be. Neil

[Whitey]

Hey ####,

Too right!

Nothing wrong with a bit of spirited diesel vs petrol discussion....as long as it stays on a numerical footing!

You know you love that petrol power ####!

Best

Mark

[150gxl]

Here is an interesting aside for you, which you may, or may not, have already seen.

Extract from Sunshine Coast Newspaper:

By 2008 80% of Prado sales were diesel, it was 90% in 2012 and this year 98.8% opt for the diesel rather than petrol variant. It's questionable why Toyota still offers a petrol option in its Prado range,

[Anth120playdo]

Nice work Mark for what you have done, numbers man trying to get the fair comparison out there.
Like many topics, some people get upset, it's gone a bit of petrol vs diesel argument.
Can't even agree on average data to be used, lol.......
Like I said, each to their own, there are positives & negatives of both, great vehicles & personally I can't wait to fill up the fuel tank again because it confirms I'm living. Running cost does not matter, where's the next trip? Lets go!!!!!!!!
By the way, diesels are better & cheaper
Enjoy your Prado & whoever does the most Klm's wins!!!!!!

[Whitey]

[I]

You’ll be waiting til the cows come home.......no, probably even longer. Life is too short.

I think you underestimate the number of diesel drivers in this country who have vastly different outcomes to your $187 a year.
This statement is based on observations and discussions with people from all over the country.
You can take the approach that "if it aint in writing it didn't happen" if you wish. I'm over and out......have to cook tea now!

Enjoy your evening.

Hey,

No harm no foul.

I'll be happy to see those vastly different outcomes and the calculations behind them!

Best

Mark

[150gxl]

I find that any time someone uses the expression "this is not meant as a personal attack" right after labeling someone as pretentious and arrogant tends to mean what they say.

Where have I called someone pretentious and arrogant? There is a world of difference between describing a statement and describing a person.
It appears you’ve finally come across a poster who actually means what he says i.e. I maintain it is not a personal attack

You attempt to ridicule my analysis.....
Absolutely not. Merely pointing out there is a world of difference between your result and my experiences and those of my companions.

.......finding historical monthly data and putting it all together isn't as simple as you think, and it took me a couple of days to compile the data.

I acknowledged that and thanked you for it. I meant it genuinely.

You then try to close your argument by using Toyota web site fuel figures, pretty funny really!

No. I had made my point before this. Whose figures should today’s buyers of the current 2.8 and V6 use then?

I'm happy to sit back and wait for your own breath taking analysis which proves me wrong.

You’ll be waiting til the cows come home.......no, probably even longer. Life is too short.

I think you underestimate the number of diesel drivers in this country who have vastly different outcomes to your $187 a year.
This statement is based on observations and discussions with people from all over the country.
You can take the approach that "if it aint in writing it didn't happen" if you wish. I'm over and out......have to cook tea now!

Enjoy your evening.

[Whitey]

Mark,

Thanks for putting me in my place, apologies for weighing in to your thread with my fuel economy figures based only on data from a scangauge. I thought you were asking 150 V6 owners what fuel economy they were achieving in comparison to the 120. Had I realised that unless it can be backed up with 10 years of historical data it wouldn't meet the requirements of your highly scientific research I wouldn't have even bothered in the first place.

Enjoy your number crunching.

Mick

Hey Mick,

None of what I said above was personally directed at you, and you've misinterpreted what I said.

Love your sarcasm though!

Better see if you can go and get your knickers unknotted now!

Best

Mark

[Mick2211]

Mark,

2013 V6 GXL auto, no extras fitted, averaging 10.9l/100km (scangauge) mainly open road use.

Regards....Mick

Mark,

Thanks for putting me in my place, apologies for weighing in to your thread with my fuel economy figures based only on data from a scangauge. I thought you were asking 150 V6 owners what fuel economy they were achieving in comparison to the 120. Had I realised that unless it can be backed up with 10 years of historical data it wouldn't meet the requirements of your highly scientific research I wouldn't have even bothered in the first place.

Enjoy your number crunching.

Mick

[Whitey]

Unfortunately, I don't have recorded data to share so I can't really help sorting the disagreement, but I would point out that one swallow's fuel data does not a summer make

Hey,

That's why Robs figures were useful, as having a lease car means you record everything. His data is recorded from the last 5 years. If anyone else has complete historical cost and economy records for either diesel or petrol, I'm happy to see the figures, and how they compare with the national average monthly data I've used for this thread.

It's meaningless to weigh in and just state you get such and such economy because you saw it on the scanguage one day. Historical pricing is the only way to get a meaningful and accurate comparison.

Best

Mark