Is the 150 showing any signs of cracked inner guards

[AJ120]

OT anyone heard how the new Ranger is performing? I heard some mining companies were going to trial them underground which would be the ultimate test of durability. I wouldn't expect that they would match Troopies but will be interesting to see. Anyone out there in the know?

Heard about 1 that broke the chassis in half on the Canning! Got welded back together, reinforced with whatever they could find and some fencing wire and limped back to the nearest civilisation and trucked back to Melbourne. A friend of ours was on the trip when it happened, don't know anything more than that.

i seen the emphorsist on tyre pressures as a properganda move towards protecting after market products as appose to actknowedging the true cause of the problem....

As I said at the start the problem, like most problems, is probably caused by the combination of a number of factors. My comments on tyre pressures are in no way meant to protect any company, rather an observation based on years of experience and dozens of conversations with knowledgeable people all over the country.

In any driving, but particularly off road I look at 3 things that are the most important to get correct in my humble opinion.
1. Tyre pressure.
2. Speed (momentum)
3. Wheel placement.

If people want to run stock Prado's that is fine, apart from an alloy bullbar and a UHF my first Prado remained mostly stock for much of the time I owned it, including a trip to the Kimberly on stock suspension. And if corrugated roads and beach driving is all you do then upgraded suspension may not be needed, after all whilst remote the top end of WA doesn't nescessarily have much in the way of hard core 4wdriving, rough yes, remote yes, spectacular you bet, but not hard core.

But if you travel all over this great country like I do then a standard Prado just won't cut it.

Go to the high country and drive some of the tough tracks and tell me a suspension lift isn't a huge asset!
Drive from Wilcannia to Bourke along the Darling a few times and tell me a steel bullbar isn't the best insurance policy you can get!
Drive to the tip of Cape York and tell me you aren't thankful for a snorkel!
Tour around Australia for 1 or 2 months or more and tell me that a good drawer system isn't worth its weight in gold!
Drive across the most remote part of the simpson desert in 45 degree heat and tell me that big awning isn't the best investment you ever made!

I could go on but I hope you get the picture. Now don't get me wrong, plenty of people have stuff bolted to their rigs that they will never need driving around the city, but if it makes them happy who am I to tell them not too. And yes every second 4wd travelling around Australia is probably over weight, but so is my neighbour when he puts his Basketball team in his Grande and goes to the game a couple of towns away!

Cheers Andrew

[krypto]

I haven't seen anything other than Toyotas underground and your right about being the ultimate test. Some U/G mine declines I've been in are up to 1/6 to 1/7 slopes. That work day in day out combined with the crappy wet conditions and drivers who generally don't give a s%$t makes for a hard life. After a couple of years they generally look 20 years old.

[Schniff]

All good mate, I can see how that got misunderstood.

On another note, I received a phone call from Toyota saying they had received my letter and it was being forwarded to the relevant department. I'm not holding high hopes, it might have to be small claims to force the issue.

The other gentleman with the cracked guard I was referring to is not on the forum although I have sent him the link to this thread. I got his details from Karl. I haven't heard from him for a bit though.

OT anyone heard how the new Ranger is performing? I heard some mining companies were going to trial them underground which would be the ultimate test of durability. I wouldn't expect that they would match Troopies but will be interesting to see. Anyone out there in the know?

[Gordon]

Best way to judge the right pressures (on the highway) is to look at tyre temperature which the Tyredog also provides.

Schniff, I hope you forgive my misunderstanding when you review your post of 24/7. You mention a stock roadgoing car with cracks.. is that in this forum? I've had a flick through this post & not seen it so far..?

Krypto, AJ SW, Schniff: I like the fact that we're all debating these issues - even if the beer and the bar (or garage) is missing. I'll add another 2c to the tyre pressure story which is that as you increase the footprint of the tyre, you need to decrease the pressure to maintain the same ride. So, the fatter your tyres, the more you'll have to drop them on rough roads.

[krypto]

Wow this thread has really got some people fired up and it's pretty entertaining

Just to clarify I drive a pretty stock Prado with a few minor additions. I agree that the standard shocks lack a bit of control which I've really noticed on some dirt tracks and in sand, so it would seem reasonable to replace them if you choose to which I'll do when mine wear out.

Having re-read this thread there are a couple of clear points:
1. As lots of people have pointed out only a few people are having the problem
2. The Prado doesn't have a lot of headroom to add extra weight to the front before exceeding design limits

Tyres pressures, dampening rates and everything else is speculation. From an engineering point of view the car must be designed to be driven in Australian conditions, provided that you don't exceed design specifications and keep to the limits for pressures etc specified in the owners manual.

That raises the question of who's responsibility it is to make sure that design specs aren't exceeded. The owner has some responsibility, but if someone is paying a specialist to fit a bunch of Prado specific stuff then it's fair to expect that the specialist has done the necessary design checks (including verifying loads) to make sure that it meets requirements. That's really the black and white of it.

Gordon, I agree with a lot of what you've said about modifying standard vehicles, a bunch of my friends up north who do weekly dirt and beach work have pretty standard vehicles with minimal mods and don't seem to have any real issues. But as I said earlier a lot of people on this forum like to tinker and when you look at the specs for a lot of the Prados they are hobby as much as a car.

[Schniff]

Schniff. Wake up and smell the roses.

A. You think you have to get on top of the corrugations because your aftermarket suspension does not work. If you had left your car alone it would ride through the rough stuff, wheels would go up and down and your car's and your own body would be none the worse for it.

B. You have watched your car self destruct and listened to the anecdotes on this forum around tyre pressures, plus you have your own senses of comfort, control and vibration to take notice of. And the indicator you're looking at for the correct pressure is the tyre temperature monitor??? I mean knowing the temperature is handy but it's not the primary indicator of sensible pressure... by far...

Gordon,
It is funny what you say about the aftermarket suspension as that is certainly against the conventional wisdom. That does not neccessarily mean you are wrong however. Having driven vehicles with stock suspension offroad I personally prefer quality aftermarket at any speed, the damping is just more controlled.

You've verballed me on the tyre temperature statement. I qualified that statement with "(on the highway)" and said that it was the best way to determine how much work the tyre is doing, i did not say it was the best way to determine the optimum pressures offroad. Obviously other factors come into play.

It's not as though I simply bolted a bunch of stuff on willy nilly. Everything had consideration for weight. Aluminium rack instead of steel, aluminium drawers, rope winch cable, solenoid instead of massive control box, no rear bar. I didn't compromise on the bar or underbody protection having seen what skippy does to alloy and what rocks do to sumps.
On the way back from the Kimberley the girlfriend was passing a roadtrain on the Stuart highway at 115 and while crossing back to the left lane a bloody goat ran in front of us from the scrub. Having the bar out front meant that she didn't feel the need to slam the brakes on in front of a massive road train which would have seen us steamrolled by said road train. Luckily, we just missed the goat. This was in broad daylight too. Wouldn't be without the bar. Wouldn't be without the winch either as it has safely got me and others out of some pooh. If what is being claimed is true that you can't fit these to a Prado without it crumbling then I don't want the Prado. In any event, once it is properly fixed it will be replaced with something else and I will never again buy a Prado.

None of the discussion in this thread explain why I am in contact with someone with a 150 of the same build month with no bar, stock suspension and hardly goes offroad and guard cracks developing at identical kms to mine.

[wooley]

What do you make of AJ120s Prado then....

Or mine. Mine cops a pounding. That said I've never even checked for cracks. Maybe one day. Lol.

[D4D]

D4D: people with highly stressed, obese 4wds that haven't fallen apart aren't lucky at all, cos they live in cities.

What do you make of AJ120s Prado then....

[Gordon]

That was one of the early ARB jobs where the squash the body/chassis mount - imbeciles.

Hey SW, here's a thought: In contrast to the millions of $$ that you mention Toyota investing in R&D, I just realised where aftermarket accessory manufacturers do the bulk of their research..... on their customers! I suppose it's not all bad, think of it as a partnership?

[Gordon]

Thanks for clarifying SW, glad I had the wrong end of that stick because you've brought a lot of good info into this discussion; all the technical stuff most of us don't know where to find. You mention a weighbridge in there somewhere. In addressing some of our fleet cars (when the place I worked still used Troopies) we realised that we were already above GVM before we even put a person in them. And that was just with steel roof racks, aftermarket bars & tools. I reckon most grey nomads would get a shock if they went over the weighbridge - maybe most of them already know...

D4D: people with highly stressed, obese 4wds that haven't fallen apart aren't lucky at all, cos they live in cities. well maybe not entirely true but its folks who use heavily corrugated or rough roads on a regular basis that cop it. Place a can of spaghetti on your coffee table, no problem. Now try throwing it. Actually my first prado was a second hand ex-city car. Looked like a real bush car with its giant ARB bar, steel roof rack, OME raised suspension, etc etc It had 150,000km on it when I bought it in practically showroom condition. 10,000km later it was starting to crack. When I sold after driving it for 60,000km the thing had well and truly self destructed. That was one of the early ARB jobs where the squash the body/chassis mount - imbeciles.

http://s1077.photobucket.com/albums/...rado%20cracks/

[D4D]

So what of all the other 120s and 150s with aftermarket gear touring around without cracks? Are they just lucky? 1 vehicle with cracks does not prove your point. I acknowledge your point of axle overloading because that is always going to find things to break but I don't think you can prove aftermarket gear is the major contributor.

[SWR]

Gday Gordon

Gordon Quote: And Skywalker... You make some sense, but what's your beef with crash testing the Parados?

Skywalkerrun Answer: I think you read my statement wrong as I wasn't bagging Toyota but putting emphasis on how much research Toyota put into making a safe vehicle with a 5 star ENCAP rating. Lol (Basically backing-up Toyota in there defense). Lol

Cheers

PS I was basically being a tad sarcastic with my previous reply due to the lack of acknowledgement that the axle ratings are clearly being over-loaded on the prado when installing numerous heavy aftermarket products without considering the maximum axle load ratings which is promoting to the extra chassis flex/Cracks and that i seen the emphorsist on tyre pressures as a properganda move towards protecting after market products as appose to actknowedging the true cause of the problem.... Hence my indepth detail on explanation of how to read axle loads and kerb ratings. Link below of my prior explanation some threads back.
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post359454

("Yes" Lower tyre pressures do help to reduce suspention stress and promote traction on corrogated roads).

"Obviously" the up-grading to stiffer suspention inorder to carry the extra weight which has been added to the vehicle (Not to just to lift the vehicle higher for extra ground clearance) it is in turn with the extra weight causes more energy to be transmitted through the chassis instead of the suspention doing its initial job of obsorbing the energy which normally gives a smooth ride and helps to protect the chassis and its body from accessive viabration stress. (Not forgetting the occupants of the vehicle).

PPPS to Gordon. I truly like your open and forward thoughts and for that i respect

[Gordon]

Unfortunately the surface is very uneven so speed has to be slow and you cant get on top of the corrugations and let the suspension do the work.

it is the temperature of the tyre relative to ambient that indicates how much work the tyre is doing.

Schniff. Wake up and smell the roses.

A. You think you have to get on top of the corrugations because your aftermarket suspension does not work. If you had left your car alone it would ride through the rough stuff, wheels would go up and down and your car's and your own body would be none the worse for it.

B. You have watched your car self destruct and listened to the anecdotes on this forum around tyre pressures, plus you have your own senses of comfort, control and vibration to take notice of. And the indicator you're looking at for the correct pressure is the tyre temperature monitor??? I mean knowing the temperature is handy but it's not the primary indicator of sensible pressure... by far...

And Skywalker... You make some sense, but what's your beef with crash testing the Parados? I don't understand your angle. I's love to see anyone frustrated with the prospect of buying a Parado to find a vehicle that better suits their needs. Or even better go get an engineering degree and show Toyota how it's done.

I'm not brandist or being particularly patriarchal - I'd go buy a Landrover or Mitsubishi if it made sense, just seems to be a lot of negativity around what is truly quite a remarkable vehicle. Maybe its my generation but I'm actually quite thankful that a mainstream, affordable, safe vehicle is so capable in my very marginal environment. And I don't think I'll ever see many of these precious ARB-pimped Parados following me more than half the time.

Anyway back to Dumb, Drunk & Racist...

[AJ120]

If you want pressures to allow you to travel "fast" on gravel roads aren't you sacrificing safety for speed? So long as speed is reduced along with pressures almost any pressure can be safe. If you want to travel at 80-100k and swerve around the pot holes and bull dust and wildlife whilst sitting on top of the corrugations then it's not going to be safe.

I would encourage everyone to test out the various theories on pressures and then decide for themselves.

Cheers Andrew

[krypto]

I'll have a look at getting a tyredog, sounds like a good idea especially for the camper.

I don't think anyone would dispute that low tyre pressures reduce shock on the chassis. My comment was more about what is a tyre pressure that gives best control for fast travel on corrugated roads. It's fine to run soft tyres but at some point there's a trade off. I would never trade control for comfort.

Unfortunately none of this helps Schniff.