Recovery Points - 150

[CQ_Prado Member Find all posts View Profile Close CQ_Prado]

The only place to use the shackles would be on each end where the equaliser attaches(because you would thread the eaqualiser through the loop end of the snatch strap). then if one breaks its still attached to the car and is only going to travel the length of the equaliser strap(1.5m). I believe you would find that spreading the load over both of these you would have a tough time breaking them.

I beg to differ on strength, I think you would find that these are welded each side to plate on box section, while the purchasable recovery points look strong because they are big and red, in the end they area only 2 bolts through the chassis rail and only on 1 side of the chassis box section.

But like any recovery situation each should be assessed individually for the safest outcome.

[wooley Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close wooley]

I'll probably get bashed for this...

Use the the 2 loops provided with equaliser strap. They go right through that box section and welded both sides.. Heck I have even used 1 of the loops but be sure with using both of them.

Anyone else use the 2 tow loops together via equaliser strap? Or lots do but don't want to admit it.

I only intend on using these loops, they are definently stronger tham just a tiedown point. I can not see how the outback ideas points could be stronger than these loops.

The only place to use the shackles would be on each end where the equaliser attaches(because you would thread the eaqualiser through the loop end of the snatch strap). then if one breaks its still attached to the car and is only going to travel the length of the equaliser strap(1.5m). I believe you would find that spreading the load over both of these you would have a tough time breaking them.

I beg to differ on strength, I think you would find that these are welded each side to plate on box section, while the purchasable recovery points look strong because they are big and red, in the end they area only 2 bolts through the chassis rail and only on 1 side of the chassis box section.

But like any recovery situation each should be assessed individually for the safest outcome.

Look, I agree with you, I'm happy to use my tie down points as they're not too bad.

BUT... the strength of a bolt is known... the strength of a weld is not always: what if someone's the unlucky person that had their tie down points welded on by the new sub-apprentice welder at the factory that day?

I've got a set of the outback ideas points but am unable to fit them due to poor ARB bar fitment but that's another story, but I would like to have them.

[CQ_Prado Member Find all posts View Profile Close CQ_Prado]

Who says ARB/TJM or what ever 4x4 shop use rated bolts all the time?

Anyway If I am stuck or someone else is I would happily recover them using this method and these points.

[A10 Member Find all posts View Profile Close A10]

BUT... the strength of a bolt is known... the strength of a weld is not always: what if someone's the unlucky person that had their tie down points welded on by the new sub-apprentice welder at the factory that day?

Don't you mean the robot that is not programmed correctly. I can't imagine too much manual welding going on at Toyota.

[/QUOTE]I've got a set of the outback ideas points but am unable to fit them due to poor ARB bar fitment but that's another story, but I would like to have them.[/QUOTE]

Is your issue with the ARB bar that the holes don't line up or is it worse than that. On my ARB bar, the top hole was a little out which made fitting the bolt very difficult but just had to enlarge the hole a small amount.

If all you have is the Toyota tow points, how are you going to meet the minimum standards for the 2012GTG?

[A10 Member Find all posts View Profile Close A10]

I beg to differ on strength, I think you would find that these are welded each side to plate on box section, while the purchasable recovery points look strong because they are big and red, in the end they area only 2 bolts through the chassis rail and only on 1 side of the chassis box section.

While I tend to agree with you on the strength of the tow points, they are welded to a cross member which is welded to the chassis rail. At least the Outback ideas points are bolted directly to the chassis rail.

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

Been covered extensively before, it seems that the OE 150 series tie down points are very similar to the last of the OE 120 series tie down points. In other words, they look strong enough, but essentially they are not recovery points.

At the end of the day, it matters not whether you think your tie down point is adequate for a recovery. It will be up to the person that recovers you because if it fails, that chunk of metal will be sailing towards the back of the recovery vehicle at a great rate of knots. I can assure you that I won't be recovering anyone without them having a recovery point fitted, but you go ahead and try to convince someone else that recovering your vehicle is more important than their safety.

[cafiem Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close cafiem]

Has anyone actually witnessed the factory point fail causing damage to the recovery vehicle?
I'm not trying to be smart it's just that I've never heard of it and have broken snatch straps trying.

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

If you wish to find out how good those OE points are as recovery points, ring Toyota and ask them.

As I said, it's been covered before here:
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...ecovery-Points
and here:
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...ecovery-points

Are the 150 tow points any better than these on the later 120? Post up some photos and compare:

Front

Back


This is also a good point:

If all you have is the Toyota tow points, how are you going to meet the minimum standards for the 2012GTG?

The short answer is that you don't meet the minimum 2012GTG standards with OE tow points.

[cafiem Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close cafiem]

Oh well I suppose they are not rated but I have still never heard of them failing and flying towards the recovery vehicle.
I have however seen it happen when an unrated D shackle failed when it was installed back the front.
Good luck to those who want to fit them and good luck to those on the GTG, I live and work doing that kind of thing so I think i'll go fishing on the east coast somewhere on my leave instead.
Thanks for the feedback.
Cameron.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

At the end of the day, it matters not whether you think your tie down point is adequate for a recovery. It will be up to the person that recovers you because if it fails, that chunk of metal will be sailing towards the back of the recovery vehicle at a great rate of knots. I can assure you that I won't be recovering anyone without them having a recovery point fitted, but you go ahead and try to convince someone else that recovering your vehicle is more important than their safety.

Peter has hit the nail on the head here, it doesn't matter if you are happy to be recovered by these points, your the one that is stuck and needs help, the desicion is up to the person doing the recovery and if they aren't willing to recover you using the tie down points then your buggered.

It has been done over and over many times but its probably worth repeating, the problem with welds is that not all welds are equal. Thsoe people here that are happy with their points may well have excellent welds and they may well be more than strong enough for a recovery. But I have looked at a number of these points on different Prados and the weld quality varies considerably, also having worked in a car factory training people to weld chassis's I would not be confident that the welds were done by someone that knows how to weld!

The reason we on the GTG committee have mandated the bolt on style recovery points, and most 4wd clubs do the same is that you know what you are getting. A high tensile bolt is made to a standard, the recovery points are made to an equal standard so everyones points would as close to identical as possible, eliminating the chance of a rougue weld that could fail causing damage or death.

Whilst people using tie down points for recoveries is an individual decision, I think suggesting on a forum that others could use them is irresponsible, all welds are not equal so you can't make a call that all tie down points will be safe.

And once again I step down off my soapbox!

Cheers Andrew

[cafiem Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close cafiem]

All understood and I am not trying to convince or influence anyone to do anything, if that's how it came across then I'm sorry.

I was just wondering whether anyone on here has actually had, or witnessed, one of the standard points failing resulting in "damage or death." ?

[Ages Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ages]

hasn't this been covered before?
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...for-150-Series gets interesting around post 120

I could be wrong and it has been a while, but wasn't the outback ideas point not rated either. also i'm pretty sure it came out that it was only labelled as a tow point and not a recovery point as it was only rated to the towing capacity of the vehicle.
there was another thread that said that ARB was making rated recovery point for other vehicles but possibly did not have any plans for the prado.

Whilst people using tie down points for recoveries is an individual decision, I think suggesting on a forum that others could use them is irresponsible, all welds are not equal so you can't make a call that all tie down points will be safe.
Cheers Andrew

But i completely agree with this. And when the time comes i too will probably bolt on a unrated recovery point to mine because one day i'll wanna go to a gtg.

[barajak Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close barajak]

On another note... are other peoples bull bar mounts, which bolt to this chassis flush with the chassis? and hard up against the chassis?

My mounting plates are not flush and I can see thread between the plate and chassis. ARB says this is fine which I really don't think it is.

This is the reason I have no mounted my points... I'm scared of what will happen when I undo those bolts...

I did note when fitting my recovery points that the mount points for the bullbar are made to clear the weld at the front of the chassis. On my installation the bolts were done up tight dragging the mount plate hard against the chassis rail. Sounds like yours have not been done up tight. When undoing the ARB bolts the tension stayed on the bolt until the mounting plate was parallel at around 2mm from the chassis rail. Be brave Wooley if you do not want to take the bolt out yet, try tightening it up.

[wooley Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close wooley]

I did note when fitting my recovery points that the mount points for the bullbar are made to clear the weld at the front of the chassis. On my installation the bolts were done up tight dragging the mount plate hard against the chassis rail. Sounds like yours have not been done up tight. When undoing the ARB bolts the tension stayed on the bolt until the mounting plate was parallel at around 2mm from the chassis rail. Be brave Wooley if you do not want to take the bolt out yet, try tightening it up.

Mine are done up crazy tight... They'll strip out if they were any tighter. I think they may have actually buggered the bolts last time they looked at it.

The nuts are definitely the nut-on-a-stick type aren't they?

When I have time I might just pull the whole thing off and see what happens.

[barajak Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close barajak]

Unless you are using a high strength chain your loop will be the weak link at the point that your snatch strap is attached. You would be better off attaching the snatch strap and your loop (say a tree protector) to one anchor point and the other end of the loop to the other. This would be a lot safer than a snatch strap with a shackle attached recoiling through a back window. I don't know if there is support at the end of the rail the tie down/recovery point is attached to from new but this is stiffened up considerably with the bull bar mounting plate as per the pic in this thread. It would not be as strong as the red plate but I would not worry about snatching you using the tie down point.

Let me clarify that. I definately am NOT RECOMENDING ANYONE TRY A FULL SPEED HIGH STRESS RECOVERY USING TIE DOWN POINTS. I was stating that if that was all you had and you were stuck, they are much better than nothing and can be used for towing you out. Of course I would lend you my shovel first and I might let you use the Max Trax as well.