Aftermarket front recovery points for 150 Series

[Matty80 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Matty80]

I have contacted the testing company, as listed in the header of the document for further information...

Included in my initial email are queries relating to the missing WLL? Is it a certificate? Is it just a test report?
Does having it posted or linked on the public forum open up the forum and/or the individual to potential litigation?

Has the document been provided in full?

Provided link to the document in question.

[PradOz Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close PradOz]

120 Points!

i am still waiting for an answer on how these on a 120 fit in that position when an arb bar is already fitted there using the same fixing pposition. I have received a PM from giles saying they dont use the same fixing position. i would love someone to please explain where/how/why?? sorry not trying to hijack the 150 guys, but they posted up a pic of a 120 with them fittied and said they will fit, so thought it would be great to get some clear accurate answers all on the one thread for all to see about these points. and if they do fit, let me know how and i will go buy them

[A10 Member Find all posts View Profile Close A10]

I also agree with Andrew's comments. What is the point of rating or testing a recovery point in a test frame anayway. Surely it is its performance in the vehicle that counts. I don't want my car's frame to be the weakest link. Unfortunately, Toyota refuse to give any guidance on the capacity of the tow points provided so unless someone tests one in a real vehicle, I don't see a 'rating' of being much value.

[Guest Close Guest]

In the absence of Toyota's specification on the strength of its chassis and its tow point, the next best thing an owner can do is get the best available recovery point. If the OI recovery points are the only ones that have actually been tested, albeit not to any standard, then engineering judgement will tell you that it is the best recovery point currently available.

If the recovery point went past the yield point but did not break during the test, then it has done it's job and you need to get new ones. The bolts broke but it is not clear in the report of how the recovery point was mounted. To me, the chassis is the weak point, but we won't know for sure until an actual vehicle was tested. Maybe test a rear ended wreck stuck up to the chassis in mud loaded with gear for outback travel?

[keencdk Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close keencdk]

My thoughts are that Toyota provided a set of tie down points to keep the car in one spot on a boat. The load on the boat is pulling at about 45 degrees to the chassis and this is evident in the shape and design of the tie down points. I think these should be removed once the vehicle has been delivered by the dealer and not used for recovery. I put them in the same category as using tow balls for recovery.

Outback ideas have designed a recovery point for the purpose of recovering a vehicle, and I have purchased a set to fit up to my 150 series because from what I have seen they are the most suitable recovery point available in the Aussie market for a 150 series Prado and I would much rather have the OI recovery points than the Toyota tie down points. For me it is about the safety of myself, my passengers and just as importantly the vehicle recovering me.

Similarly at the rear I have a tow hitch receiver style recovery point for rear recoveries

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Given that there are no standards for recovery points I use the following as a guide. It is taken from a 4WD training manual, National Outdoor Recreation Industry training Package (SRO 03), Drive and recover a 4WD vehicle SRO DRV 001B, put out by the SAAFWDC and would apply across Australia.

6.1.2 Recovery points.

Recovery points must be attached to the front and rear of the vehicle. At each recovery point, rated recovery hooks must be securely attached to the vehicle chassis or on solid mounting points that are securely attached to the chassis.

If these recovery points are bolted to the chassis, high tensile bolts of the appropriate size must be used to attach them.

WARNING:
Tie down points are not recovery points and must not be used for recovery purposes. Tie down points have only been designed to restrain vehicle movement while being transported.

Tow Bars are not recommended for use as a recovery point. Most tow bars have a design loading rating less than the rating required for recovery purposes.

Tow balls are NOT to be used as a recovery point. Tow balls are not, generally, made of high tensile material; they have been known to fracture and are not directly attached to the chassis.

WARNING: DO NOT USE TOW BALLS AS A RECOVEY POINT

Based on this information, I use rated hooks (yes rated to 10000lb, marked on the packaging and stamped on the hook) attached either directly to the chassis or on solid mounting points that are securely attached to the chassis. Page 1 of my rig build shows the setup I had, the last page shows the updated method which I will finalise on the weekend subject to getting my brackets from the powder coaters. I also have the same rated hooks bolted directly to the chassis of my Camper trailer. Of course I have the 120 not the 150 but a similar principal should apply.

2 hooks front and rear on the Prado, and another 2 hooks on the rear of the CT so a bridle can be used to distribute the weight evenly.

Cheers Andrew

[wooley Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close wooley]

do you ever have issues with hooks? i've found that when using them on trucks, tractors, utes, that sometimes the snatch strap, chain, string being used falls off them?

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

do you ever have issues with hooks? i've found that when using them on trucks, tractors, utes, that sometimes the snatch strap, chain, string being used falls off them?

The hooks have a retaing plate that should stop anything coming off, If I was in a situation of using them to tow someone, or be towed for an extended distance I would probably add a cable tie for insurance. The big advantage of the hooks is that they are always there, no chance of taking the shackle out and using it for something else and forgetting to put it back in the car.

Cheers Andrew

[Giles Member Find all posts View Profile Close Giles]

i am still waiting for an answer on how these on a 120 fit in that position when an arb bar is already fitted there using the same fixing pposition. I have received a PM from giles saying they dont use the same fixing position. i would love someone to please explain where/how/why?? sorry not trying to hijack the 150 guys, but they posted up a pic of a 120 with them fittied and said they will fit, so thought it would be great to get some clear accurate answers all on the one thread for all to see about these points. and if they do fit, let me know how and i will go buy them

They Fit. Ask Boomslang this pic is of his Prado.

[PradOz Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close PradOz]

They Fit. Ask Boomslang this pic is of his Prado.

can you show me a pic of Boomslang's or anyone elses 120 Prado that is fitted with an ARB Deluxe Winch Bar and also fitted with these recovery points in that location. I would like to see a pic showing it complete, all installed, from underneath without the bash plates so you can see how these recovery points fit

Giles, my belief is that they both use the same location for fitting. They both use the bottom hole where the recovery points are fitted that you show in Boomslang's photo. The ARB Chassis Support Brackets (P/Ns 3756645L,R) use that hole and extend up past and behind that position and are folded on their edge in the position and side that the recovery points need to fit onto.

I suggest you go look under a completed installation of the bar I mentioned and look at Boomslangs photo you refer to and then tell me how to fit these points in the same position. Or better still show us a photo of an installation that has both already fitted. The photo above does not show me a bullbar fitted, only your recovery points. Boomslang may have another bar or no bar for all i know, or if he has an ARB Deluxe Winch Bar, I am guessing he does not have these recovery points fitted at all.

thank you, mick

[wooley Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close wooley]

The hooks have a retaing plate that should stop anything coming off, If I was in a situation of using them to tow someone, or be towed for an extended distance I would probably add a cable tie for insurance. The big advantage of the hooks is that they are always there, no chance of taking the shackle out and using it for something else and forgetting to put it back in the car.

Cheers Andrew

ahh fair enough. the hooks i've used in the past don't have the retaining plates. thanks.

[Giles Member Find all posts View Profile Close Giles]

I am only passing the information on that I have received myself, I suggest if people want to discuss this further or clarify any other information to contact John from Outback Ideas.
I guess there are more variables than just the rating of the recovery point itself when it comes to this, I believe all the recovery points from Outback ideas are tested for breaking / destruction & work load limits.

I think to some point commonsense needs to prevail in this, no matter what item it is extreme care always needs to be carried out. We have seen people break shackles from incorrect use, I think people need to remember these points simply provide the safest point of recovery with what there vehicle is capable to support.

I am getting further reports from John ASAP as well.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

I believe all the recovery points from Outback ideas are tested for breaking / destruction & work load limits.

I am getting further reports from John ASAP as well.

From the certificate you posted above it seems quite clear that they are not tested for work load limits. Maybe John can provide more documentation to show that they are. In post 127 you stated that they ARE rated, when clearly they are not, so is your belief based on anything other than hearsay?

Given that you are in the business of fitting and selling recovery points Giles, its a bit of a worry that you don't seem to have a great grasp of the terms you are using. It's a no wonder people get so confused about recovery points if the people that are selling them aren't clear on the facts, and then get on a forum to offer advise that is clearly wrong.

Please accept my apology if I have overstepped the mark, just a bit cheesed of about a number of incorrect statements being made in a few threads being passed of as fact.

Cheers Andrew

[Guest Close Guest]

It seems there has been many many hours of peoples time wasted on this topic culminating in incorrect information being supplied and guesses, accusations, etc..

I think the bottom line is to adhere to the following:

NO POINT IS RATED UNLESS IT HAS AN ACCOMPANYING/AVALIABLE CERTIFICATE AND /OR STAMPING.

Outback Ideas points have indeed been copied by numerous others and NOT rated or tested!

We have information from OI expressing that his points are rated to the towing capacity of the vehicle they are fitted on, NO MORE than that capacity!

Some copies of information/certificates supplied in former discussion is infact not the 150 points as offered in the description, but the "universal point" made to fit numerous earlier 4x4/ trucks and also Patrols rear hook plate. NOT THE 150! So the information should be ignored from said document.


Pradopoint will not tolerate the flaming or discrediting of other suppliers in regards to this or other technical matters. I would suggest if you have an issue, think it out very carefully and have the TRUE facts before posting such information.
Holidays, infringements and Bans can/will be offered in situations that infringe the above.!

[Giles Member Find all posts View Profile Close Giles]

From the certificate you posted above it seems quite clear that they are not tested for work load limits. Maybe John can provide more documentation to show that they are. In post 127 you stated that they ARE rated, when clearly they are not, so is your belief based on anything other than hearsay?

Given that you are in the business of fitting and selling recovery points Giles, its a bit of a worry that you don't seem to have a great grasp of the terms you are using. It's a no wonder people get so confused about recovery points if the people that are selling them aren't clear on the facts, and then get on a forum to offer advise that is clearly wrong.

Please accept my apology if I have overstepped the mark, just a bit cheesed of about a number of incorrect statements being made in a few threads being passed of as fact.

Cheers Andrew

No AJ you havnt over stepped the Mark.

I am only passing on the information i have received from John.

In regards to grasping the terms ect, i am not aware of the Mathematics of the procedure nor am i aware how they work these things out.
You appear to have a decent understanding of these things.

There apparently isn't a standard to which these are to comply with far as i'm aware,we have asked John to sticker the points and we have to just see what he wants to do regarding that.


Also Piggy i find it frustrating that document has the OBRP customer reference on it,i did not notice that at all. Also with all the other points 100series ect he has sent us 2 pages per report,i only got one for the 150 and that was it.

I'm finding it hard at the moment to work out where i have gone wrong on this,The supplier keeps telling me they are rated ect, I am only just trying to help the members ect.

John has also said he is sending me more info over,when that comes i guess i will have to think what i will do with it.

Matty has been in contact with John and pretty much this is as far as i can go with this.

Giles