The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

[Miko in the desert]

Hi Everyone,

Such an informative conversation. I have gone in circles over the last week reading this post so I though it best to seek some further advice. I have a few questions about my desired outcome for my MY18 GXL.

1. I have a Thunder Weekender Batery box with a 120 AGM
2. I have an ARB 60L fridge
3. When out camping I like to charge camera batteries, laptops, iphones, ryobi rechargable batterys (lighting)

The Plan

Phase 1 - Ideally I want a cheap/reasonable way to run a line from the alternator to keep the Batterybox charged when on the road - I am heading to NSW from Alice Springs via Lake Eyre in early May 2019.

Phase 2 - I want to install a second battery under the hood (dual battery system) and run that up to various plugs and an inverter into the drawrs into the back of the Prado, also powering the fridge during travel. It would be great if this phase could allow for continued charging of the battery box.

Phase 3 - Install and run (a) electric brakes (b) caravan power to ther towball (enough power to keep a caravan fridge running)


My questions:

1. If I am running cable to the back of the Prado in phase 1, should I run the cable for all phases?
2. Can I buy a DIY kit suitable for any of these phases?
3. Phase 2 - Would a BCDC support charging the battery box and power the fridge at the same time? If so please recommend the brand and configuration.
4. Phase 3 - Would the same BCDC handle the requirements of all 3 phases?
5. What would/should the components cost for each of these Phases cost?
6. What are the easiest parts of this plan and which bits are best left for the proffessionals?

Thank you all!

Miko

[money_killer]

Shouldn't affect the main, sounds like the main dropped a cell. I would have thought there would have been signs the main was on the ay out,
slow cranking etc if that was the case then really no one to blame but yourself. Personally I test the main at least twice a year
but then we do a lot of remote travel. Your service mob should have also been checking it if they haven't been that is.

thanks for the reply,

not looking at blaming anyone at all. Just seemed odd my mate and myself main batteries died thought it maybe a common thing. wanted to know cause my brother is getting dual batteries soon and was getting at should he just replace the main battery so he wont get stuck any where if the main battery dies.

cheers

[LeighW]

Shouldn't affect the main, sounds like the main dropped a cell. I would have thought there would have been signs the main was on the ay out,
slow cranking etc if that was the case then really no one to blame but yourself. Personally I test the main at least twice a year
but then we do a lot of remote travel. Your service mob should have also been checking it if they haven't been that is.

[money_killer]

just had a dual battery system installed and my main battery just died (7yrs old original battery so cant complain) but acid leaked and stripped the paint ..... not happy but i sorted it yesterday still waiting for paint to dry will get new battery in today... my question is it common for a new system to drain a weak starter battery cause the same thing happened to a mate of mine as well the other week.

cheers

[steve.armitage]

Great info guys,

I've been reading up on the Lead Crystal batteries and getting a little excited about their fast recharge times and greater discharge capabilities. I plan to install one in the back of my drawers to power 2 fridges and some accessories.

There are 2 types of lead crystal batteries with slightly different charge rates - for the CNFJ it's 30a/100 and for the EVFJ it's 20a/100.
As the fridges are 'motors' and the plates of the EVFJ's are thicker, Jason from Betta Batteries recommended i use the EVFJ battery which would also be more resilient for 4x4 use.

To charge the 6-EVFJ-120, i need a minimum of a 28A charger - which leads me to either the Redarc BCDC1240 or the Enerdrive 40A DC2DC+

My query is that in the 1GD, do i have a spare 40 to 50 amps from the alternator to charge the battery and get the quickest recharge?

To charge Lead Crystal batteries properly, you get better results by charging with high currents and the manufacturer specifically states for best results, charge with 30 amps per 100Ah of Lead Crystal battery capacity.

Unless charged with sufficient charge currents, Lead Crystal batteries progressively loose capacity.

[sleeky5]

Having some issues fitting the piranha BTP150D battery tray to my 150 d4d. Anybody have any pics or tips to install, seems to be the wong size

Which engine do you have. The tray for the 2.8 is quite different to the 3.0 and pretty fiddly to get in.

[drivesafe]

Mine is in the back. BCDC25 in the battery box. My signature has a link to my build. Pics in there if you are interested. My compressor is in the spot under tge bonnet.

Hi mjrandom, what voltage setting have you got you DC/DC set at.

I have found that if the charge current is not high enough, you need to raise the charge voltage.

This means Lead Crystal batteries are better charged with a small DC/DC device set to around 15v will fully charge Lead Crystal batteries, whereas, set at 14.4v will not fully charge them.

[drivesafe]

That South African thread appears to be blaming the lead crystal bulging on a combination of high engine bay temperatures and the very high charging currents you get from Alternator+VSR solutions.

To charge Lead Crystal batteries properly, you get better results by charging with high currents and the manufacturer specifically states for best results, charge with 30 amps per 100Ah of Lead Crystal battery capacity.

Unless charged with sufficient charge currents, Lead Crystal batteries progressively loose capacity.

[epayne1]

Having some issues fitting the piranha BTP150D battery tray to my 150 d4d. Anybody have any pics or tips to install, seems to be the wong size

[mjrandom]

Thanks, I had problems with the underbonnet AGM in the 120 degrading with the heat so I went away from that this time. The Prado is very nearly getting there...

As I said tge lead crystal batteries seem a good thing. Much better than the AGM before it/them.

[dBC]

Nice setup. Your setup seems to be the optimum use for lead crystal batteries. That South African thread appears to be blaming the lead crystal bulging on a combination of high engine bay temperatures and the very high charging currents you get from Alternator+VSR solutions. Your setup avoids both of those conditions.

[mjrandom]

Mine is in the back. BCDC25 in the battery box. My signature has a link to my build. Pics in there if you are interested. My compressor is in the spot under tge bonnet.

[dBC]

I run 120AH in the Prado and 2x 110AH in the camper.

mjrandom, is that in the engine compartment, or down the back? And how do you charge it? I've read South African reports that they're great batteries so long as you keep them away from the engine heat.

http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...attery-problem

[shonky 150]

great detail and info in there.

thanks for the help.

Hi Shonky, I am a big, BIG fan of Optima Yellowtop batteries, and have been using them for many years with great success, but late last year, I was given some info about the new Lead Crystal batteries.

I looked into them and the data being supplied sounded just way to good to be true. But I bought a small number of them in different sizes and started testing them.

I am never interested in the advertising claims made about products intended for RV use, I just want to see if they stand up to the many claims made, when these products are used, and abused, in real world RV situations.

Well I have caned the crap out of all these Lead Crystal batteries and have not managed to damage one of them, and believe me, I have been deliberately abusing them.

Lead Crystal batteries have a number of benefits that makes them ideally suited for the RV market. One of their primary advantages is that they can be left in any state of charge, for very long periods and not have any detrimental effects, other than requiring a couple of charge cycles to get them back to full capacity. This makes them ideally suited for use as house batteries in camper trailers and caravans, that are left unused for long periods between trips.

The batteries are actually delivered with a sticker on them indicating when the battery was last charged, and some of the batteries I bought were last charged nearly 12 months earlier.

This one feature alone makes Lead Crystal batteries ideal for RV use, particularly for use as house batteries in caravans and camper trailers, that are left unused for long periods of time, between trips.

They are also “UNDER-RATED”, meaning they are actually rated at a lower Ah than they can provide.

Lead Acid deep cycle batteries have their Ah rated by testing at C20 loads, where as a Lead Crystal battery's marked Ah is rated using C10 loads. When tested using C20 loads, they are much better than equivalent lead acid batteries.

Another big advantage is that they can be CONTINUALLY discharge to 0% SoC ( 10.5v ) many hundreds of times.

I have been cycling a number of these batteries down to 0% SoC and then charging them with different recharge voltages and they can be easily fully recharged with voltages as low as 13.6v. I have not bothered charging them with lower voltages as yet.

I have had quite a few conversations with the owner of Betta Batteries and he has supplied me with a lot more info about these batteries than is found on the site.

Lead Crystal batteries can be charged with up to 800% of their marked Ah rate, for example a 100Ah Lead Crystal battery can be charged with 800 amps. I am not sure how you would achieve that in RV applications, but they can still be charge with an alternator at high currents and no problems of overcharging or over heating.

Again for example, I have been carrying out bench testing of these batteries, charging FLAT ( 0% SoC or 10.5v ) batteries using different voltages to see how well they can be charged in different vehicles, with varying alternator voltages and here are some of the results.

55Ah battery, charged at 14.0v, had a starting current draw of 47.4 amps and after 1 hour, was still drawing 20.8 amps.

70Ah battery, charged at 13.6v, had a starting current draw of 53.2 amp and was still drawing 31.4 amps.

NOTE if you need faster charging, then an Optima Yellowtop is the way to go, but if you need larger battery capacity, Lead Crystal batteries are a much better choice over AGMs and they have near the same cycle rates as lithium batteries, but at a fraction of the cost of lithium batteries.

[mjrandom]

I changed my AGMs to lead crystal last year. Very happy with their performance. They are more expensive but do offer some very different shapes and sizes. I run 120AH in the Prado and 2x 110AH in the camper.