extra fuel filter

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

Re: extra fuel filter

Hi Rob,

I'm a little confused, your contacts said don't use a 10 micron filter unless you change it regulary.
Use a 2 micron? Assuming your referring to the filter becoming dirty, I would have thought the 2 micron filter
would clog well before the 10 micron?

Cheers
LeighW

[Davros Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davros]

Re: extra fuel filter

Well..... I had a chat to my cousin who works for a filtering company and has being supplying Racor Filters for years to customers and never had any problems with them at all..... I mentioned about the 10micron & 2micron issue and they said don't use a 10micron on common rails diesels....unless u change the filters regularly. They have spoken to Racor Reps regarding this issue and even they said that 2 micron filter will not strip out any of t he lubricates out of the fuel.... They said how can u strip or filter out a liquid (hydro-Carbons) out of a liquid (hydro-Carbons)... can't be done using filters, no matter how fine. They used the example of mixing Diesel and Kero ( or any hydrocarbon based liquid) together.... There is no way u can separate them (ie the hydro Carbons) w/o using the cracking process.... same way they were created in the 1st place.

I've been struggling with this idea of a 2nd 2micron filter causing damage by filtering/stripping out some of the lubricates out of the fuel.... as logically, it just doesn't seem to make sense....So, after talking to these fellas who have been in the Filtering scene for 30+yrs, I will be keeping my 2 micron Racor filter.

They went on to say that they themselves use the same setup on all their common rail Diesels w/o any problems and have had excellent run out of their vehicles with no recorded damage.....

If someone can technically explain to me how a 2nd 2micron filter can cause damage, I open to listening/reading it in order to help me change my thinking.....

Thanks Rob for clarifying the issue. After reading your post today, I contacted my FIL who wholesales heaps of Racor gear. (although he couldn't do a good enough deal for me, compared to the filter setup I sourced from eBay). My FIL contacted his Racor rep, who rang me an hour ago. To summarise.... I am very confident that the 2 micron system that I have installed, is the best available, and any talk of lubrocity of the diesel through the filter being diminished is silly talk.

Steve

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

Re: extra fuel filter

Sorry Leigh....

There's been talk that having a 2nd Filter that filters down to 2 microns (same as the Toyota OEM Filter) somehow strips out some of the lubricating additives/qualities that is in the fuel and that over time, this will or could/may damage the injectors (see previous posts in this topic). There's been the suggestion that using a 10micron filter is a better option...... that's all.

I was just saying that after talking to some people in the filter business, I will be continuing to use a 2micron Filter element in my Racor 2nd Fuel Filter located b4 the original).....Unless someone can give evidence to prove otherwise......

Hi Rob,

I'm a little confused, your contacts said don't use a 10 micron filter unless you change it regulary.
Use a 2 micron? Assuming your referring to the filter becoming dirty, I would have thought the 2 micron filter
would clog well before the 10 micron?

Cheers
LeighW

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

Re: extra fuel filter

Hi Rob,

Thanks makes sense though I suppose it depends on what additives they are using and there density, ie the racor filters out water,
I assume it does this by somehow repelling the water molecules. Image the same thing could happen with the additives.

The problem is obviously a lot more complex than it would first seem as even talking to the people that are carrying out
repairs for Toyota results in differing opinions as to the cause.

I'm going for water as the culprit, most likely causing rusting in the common rail. The rust particles are then scoring the injectors.

My concern with using a Sedimentor is that the fuel pump will break any water in the diesel down into very fine particles that will get through
the Sedimenter and eventually causing rusting.

I'm therefore going for the Racor as I believe the water repellent properties of the filter paper will be more effective in stopping this issue.

A friend, and also one of the crowds doing warranty work for Toyota have indicated that few if any vehicles from around late 2008 onwards have had
the injections replaced due to this issue. They indicate that the injector used in the 120 from late 2008 is same as the one currently being used to replace
faulty earlier ones. The same problem of noisy injectors still occurs with these new injectors but the reflash seems to fix this issue, for the time being anyway.

So seems there are two issues, earlier type injectors that go noisy and fail and later ones that just go noisy but still test fine.

Cheers
LeighW

[Foxy49 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Foxy49]

Re: extra fuel filter

Hi people, Just a couple of things .I have started using Flash Lube and I do believe my injectors are running quieter than they were before (less rattle) The question I have is How often should I use it ? every tank or every 2 tank ? What would be the recommended times ? I have received my Racor 460 and they recommend if you have the filter on the suction side of the OE filter they say you should be using 30micron before the OE 2micron .You must have a 2 micron downstream from it . I'll be using 10micron as the flow rate for the 460 is 227LPH .with 3/8th-18npt out and in .The 460 has a self priming pump which will be handy .I'm also getting the water sensor and the gauge with a inbuilt alarm .With the US dollar the way it is it hasn't been to bad .Cheers Foxy

[wooley Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close wooley]

Soooo... It's been a while, has anyone had a Toyota service department comment on their second fuel filter? Positive? Negative?

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

Soooo... It's been a while, has anyone had a Toyota service department comment on their second fuel filter? Positive? Negative?

I had my car into Toyota for 2 services to date and the only comment to date is "It's a good Idea".

No idea if it will be a good idea if anything ever goes wrong with the fuel system and they use the excuse of the 2nd filter as the reason..... but I did ask whether it would effect my warranty and the answer was "NO".

[Foxy49 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Foxy49]

Hi, Just a quick update, I have had my 20k service done and I changed both the aftermarket one at 10 micron and the OE one at 2 micron .I had to pay a little extra because where I positioned my aftermarket filter it is petty big and a bit close to the OE one but I didn't mind as the aftermarket filter has a water trap prior the OE filter, double insurance I guess, Cheers Foxy

[rob31.00 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close rob31.00]

G'day guys,
I *finally* installed my racor 230r & r20s filter in my 150...
It sits next to the Toyota fuel filter and is installed between tank and Toyota fuel filter...
For some reason the fuel keeps draining out and it makes the car impossible to start, I have to use the hand primer to pump the air out of the line then the car starts. If I leave the car alone for a while (1 hour) i notice that the car takes longer to start, again priming with the hand pump removes air from the lines and it's good to go.

Has anybody else had a similar issue or did anyone install a one way check valve between tank and filter?

Thanks in advance
Robin

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

I've installed mine in the same place and haven't had any problems..... I reckon u have a air leak some where... recheck/retighten your connections again..... + does yours have a clear bowl at the bottom ??

G'day guys,
I *finally* installed my racor 230r & r20s filter in my 150...
It sits next to the Toyota fuel filter and is installed between tank and Toyota fuel filter...
For some reason the fuel keeps draining out and it makes the car impossible to start, I have to use the hand primer to pump the air out of the line then the car starts. If I leave the car alone for a while (1 hour) i notice that the car takes longer to start, again priming with the hand pump removes air from the lines and it's good to go.

Has anybody else had a similar issue or did anyone install a one way check valve between tank and filter?

Thanks in advance
Robin

[Foxy49 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Foxy49]

Hi, I reckon Rob Macca67 has it right .I feel you must have a air leak somewhere .After you have it running does she stall ?? I don't think you need to install a non return valve .I have the Racor 460 10 micron filter with the bowl and I'm waiting for the alarm system to come and I have had no trouble at all .check and tighten everything and make sure your filter seals are bedding correctly. Hope this can help Cheers Foxy

[rob31.00 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close rob31.00]

Thanks, I'll disassemble / reassemble and see how it goes...

Does it matter if the new filter is slightly below the Toyota filter?

The racor does have a plastic bowl at the bottom, it is always full. I did notice that when priming it I would see air bubbles flow into the bowl, I was still able to purge the filter tho...

Once the car is going it runs fine, I.e. can drive around town no worries...

Cheers
Robin

[Dorey Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Dorey]

I would be very careful as to what you fit I have attended Toyota tech training before and the topic came up about fitting an aftermarket filter/water trap and the tech told us the pumps are not designed to be pulling through two units so if there was an issue the warranty wouldn't cover it, as to adding additives to the fuel I would not add anything, again if there is an issue and they can prove that the additive was at fault warranty will be void and the repair bill will start at approx 7k as you have to replace the pump, injectors, pipes and fuel rail. I'm not saying don't do it just saying what may happen if anything goes wrong I have seen units on vehicles that do work well but have not heard if any problems have happened down the track.

[rob31.00 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close rob31.00]

hmmm, disassembled / re-assembled yesterday, still have same issue, bugger...

I checked the original install performed by mechanic friend, good use of thread sealant on inlet, outlet and plug connectors. Filter was on tight, clear bowl was on tight.

I disassembled, cleaned out old thread sealant, removed filter & bowl. I did see a slight film of diesel on back of filter coming from between filter and filter head mechanism, tho in hindsight it may have been the lubricating oil for the rubber seal.

I re-assembled, applied thread sealant etc. lubricated the rubber seals and installed...

Once the system was purged of air, car started straight away, drove off down the strret, no worries, left the car to sit for a few hours and then *tried* to start, no joy, had to re-prime the toyota filter...

Still no visible signs of leaks, it seems strange that the line between fuel pump and toyota filter is being drained of fuel, a) it's uphill against gravity, and b) seperated from the racor filter by the toyota filter....

I am at a loss.

Rob

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

If u have enough hose, unbolt it off the firewall or where ever u have mounted it and turn the filter upside down so the glass bowl is at the top.... See if u can visibly see any air bubbles in the glass bowl....

If so, turn it back up the right way up and while its off the mounts, lower it below the toyota one as far as u can get it and then primer on the Toyota OEM filter to prime the bubbles out..... not sure if that will work, but its worth giving it a go.....

Just one last thought..... When u are priming it you are priming the Original Toyota primer on top of the OEM Filter and not the one on the aux filter ?? Just curious

Here's my set up - see the following Pics:

hmmm, disassembled / re-assembled yesterday, still have same issue, bugger...

I checked the original install performed by mechanic friend, good use of thread sealant on inlet, outlet and plug connectors. Filter was on tight, clear bowl was on tight.

I disassembled, cleaned out old thread sealant, removed filter & bowl. I did see a slight film of diesel on back of filter coming from between filter and filter head mechanism, tho in hindsight it may have been the lubricating oil for the rubber seal.

I re-assembled, applied thread sealant etc. lubricated the rubber seals and installed...

Once the system was purged of air, car started straight away, drove off down the strret, no worries, left the car to sit for a few hours and then *tried* to start, no joy, had to re-prime the toyota filter...

Still no visible signs of leaks, it seems strange that the line between fuel pump and toyota filter is being drained of fuel, a) it's uphill against gravity, and b) seperated from the racor filter by the toyota filter....

I am at a loss.

Rob