Raptor tune is in.

['Dan' Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 'Dan']

I cannot comment on throttle mapping as I didn't have that done. I added my own, but that was done before the tune so I know the impacts of each mod.

As per my previous, my other mate said he wasn't satisfied with the lockup improvement and went about a lockup ocntroller and was still not entirely happy (but happier).

See how you go over the coming weeks, a basic kings controller like mine is like $100 delivered.

Maybe my expectations were lower as I've owned plenty of tuned cars and had a fair gut feel what to expect from an NA car.

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

I'd had the scan gauge for years and tow the caravan "a lot" so like to think I know how the car behaves while towing quite intimately as I drive it in "S' mode when towing and always keep an eye on AT temp etc. So I will know for sure if its made any difference when I hook the van up.
btw - I'm what you'd call a confident driver :-) so know my car.

[rascal Member Find all posts View Profile Close rascal]

Run a few tanks through it so you and the car get used to the tune, and then reload the factory tune and see how much difference there is. Seeing what you are missing is sometimes easier to tell than what you think you should be gaining as it’s not clouded by expectations

['Dan' Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 'Dan']

I'd had the scan gauge for years and tow the caravan "a lot" so like to think I know how the car behaves while towing quite intimately as I drive it in "S' mode when towing and always keep an eye on AT temp etc. So I will know for sure if its made any difference when I hook the van up.
btw - I'm what you'd call a confident driver :-) so know my car.

You've missed my point about expectations and seem to have taken it as an indication you're not a confident driver or know your car somehow. I'm not saying either, I'm asking what your expectations were and what basis you had for those - thought it doesn't really matter I can only share my own experiences. I have owned and tuned a lot of cars, not just this one, including personally tuning some of them myself so I have plenty of experience to know what's a likely outcome and my expectations are guided by that experience, not just what Raptor says. I spoke with Tim at lenght about the actual changes to the timing, fueling and VVTI parameters to decide if I was going to see a gain for my usage - I have little interest in top end performance/peak HP dyno figures because that wasn't my goal. That convo also helped me decide against an exhaust as the gains for that are mostly top end and I didn't want to sacrifice the noise levels. The cost vs reward is also relative too, we'll all have our own views on what benefit is worth what cost - that's just a personal thing. Never good if you feel you go zero gain though.

If you only looked at the dyno sheet that Raptor has on their site and/or you've never tuned any other NA 4/6cyl cars, it's easy to be disappointed because that run posted on the site was done in 3rd which skews the results and it's also an untuned 91 run vs a tuned 98 run whicih makes it seem more dramatic (Do 3 tanks on e10, then switch to 98 for 3 tanks, no Raptor tune at all and tell me you can't feel the difference). Again, going back to previous experience, if a "performance" NA V6 in a 370z doesn't gain 37rwkw from a tune alone (which they don't and would be a smaller percentage gain for that car anyway) a lazier lower revving V6 isn't going to do that on a tune alone either. Different if you came here and said my other tuned Prado gained heaps more power, this feels slow.

Agree with Rascal, swap it back after a few tanks and I'll add that I think you should get a throttle controller or ask Tim to give you a new map with more aggressive mapping if you can't feel any difference (for free because he didn't deliver first time), the throttle input changes should be night and day different. As for towing, given my other mate wasn't blown away by the towing improvement I'm just guessing you won't be either - especially if you've already mastered the lockup controller behaviour with gear selection and throttle input - which most of us seem to have.

The other complaint I see from people is no big fuel economy gains because they were already doing all the right things for max lockup efficiency. I'm seeing a small gain only, but am confident I was already squeezing fairly good economy out of it, my economy "gain" now is that I am maintaining my old economy pre-tune but without having to baby it so much and am maintaining higher average speeds.

All in my opinion only, but I think Raptor should post some new graphs, change some of the wording on the site and I also think it should be a bit cheaper though I realise that a good chunk is the powergate, but I looked around and found their price for the PG was quite good from what I could see.

Good luck, I hope you can get something out of it, shit feeling when you think you've done your dough - that's how I feel about my ebay LED interior kit that's slowly failing one LED at a time and being replaced by Stedi lol, but at least that was only chump change

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

dan

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dan - "You've missed my point about expectations and seem to have taken it as an indication you're not a confident driver or know your car somehow. I'm not saying either,"

Nope - Never thought that at all... simply made the comment I am a confident driver to indicate that I do "drive" my cars rather than just put around in them. I think you taking thing a bit to personally mate :-)

Anyway - I have been in touch with RaptorSC about it - They in turn were in touch with the company they outsource it to who actually do the work and I was provided with an update file this morning - said changes were to throttle mapping and in their words "some other minor changes". Loaded the file and have only been for two very short drives today - definitely notice throttle response a bit more aggressive so happier with that now. - LHK seems to be higher than I'm used to seeing around the streets but I'm going to ignore that for now.

Going to do as others have suggested (as did the tuner) give it another few drives to “learn” up to the maximum timing table as see how I feel about it then.

Taken the van up to King Valley this weekend so looking forward to see its making any difference on that front.

['Dan' Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 'Dan']

dan

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dan - "You've missed my point about expectations and seem to have taken it as an indication you're not a confident driver or know your car somehow. I'm not saying either,"

Nope - Never thought that at all... simply made the comment I am a confident driver to indicate that I do "drive" my cars rather than just put around in them. I think you taking thing a bit to personally mate :-)

Anyway - I have been in touch with RaptorSC about it - They in turn were in touch with the company they outsource it to who actually do the work and I was provided with an update file this morning - said changes were to throttle mapping and in their words "some other minor changes". Loaded the file and have only been for two very short drives today - definitely notice throttle response a bit more aggressive so happier with that now. - LHK seems to be higher than I'm used to seeing around the streets but I'm going to ignore that for now.

Going to do as others have suggested (as did the tuner) give it another few drives to “learn” up to the maximum timing table as see how I feel about it then.

Taken the van up to King Valley this weekend so looking forward to see its making any difference on that front.

lol, no not personal at all, I was explaining because I thought you were taking it personally, ahh the joys of text based communication.

Great that you drive your cars, that means you'll know when there's a percetpable change, but I was asking you about expectations, how you got yours, and what basis you had to make that call in your head - which we still don't know but doesn't really matter in the end - you're not happy and that's the crux of it.

As for the outsourcing, that's Dave at DEM Automotive, they just have access to the equipment to generate the files. Its where my ECU went so it could have the base image taken so a bunch of other 150 drivers could actually get a tune done.

The multi tanks thing is important because the knock sensors are very sensitive and when you change tune and tell the car ok you can now have XX degrees max timing at WOT, only to detect knock because when we filled the tank there was still 20L of 91 in there - example only, but it's a real example from my experience. It was obvious to me the difference between tank 1 - where I had that 20L of 91 in it when I filled up, and now on tank 3 which has been 98 only since the switch (and low fuel prices).

Not sure how handy a scangauge is (I think you said you had one), but with Torque Pro and the right PIDs (mostly stolen from FJ Cruiser forums) you can see a lot of data that confirms things are different.

You also mentioned before and after dyno runs, how are they coming along? Could show up there's an issue with the car elsewhere etc - we don't know much else about the car but I've just assumed it doesn't have mega k's or sensor faults etc.

Love the King Valley, enjoy. Might be a bit soon as per the above about the tanks of fuel through it though. See how you go and good luck, have a few beers for all of us.

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

My files/tuning has been sent to and come back from DEM - RaptorSC simply acting as middle man (don't care, but fact). I have email exchanges to prove this..

['Dan' Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 'Dan']

Yes because they are the Alientech master dealer with the equipment to read ECUs and generate the files, They don't list PowerGate or Toyota mapping on their site for a reason. Alientech will not allow multiple master dealers in the same area.

What I said was, the parameters and testing (the actual data used in the tune) are done by Raptor (don't care, but fact).

I can't actually tell what you want out of this thread anymore, but I'm confident I can't provide anything more useful than I have so I'll leave you to it, best of luck with it all.

EDIT - This is wrong - DEM are the creator, see post further down.

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

We'll have to agree to disagree mate... and/or your experience has been different to mine.. In mine, Raptor have simply been piggy in the middle and provided my feedback to DEM, DEM have decided and applied changes and sent updated file... Raptor have had no part to play apart from being the retailer.

['Dan' Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 'Dan']

No, you're right.

I had to confirm because I hate sharing wrong info. Made some calls and DEM is the creator as you said.

Apparently he has a number of reasons why he doesn't sell them directly which I won't go into publically.

I'd rather have correct info here, so you can have that one

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

So... Towed the van on the weekend - Friday evening in the rain and then Sunday Arvo back - ~3hour drive each way - Melbourne, Point Cook, Up the HUME to King Valley and back

So - I did intentionally try to leave the car in D to see how it would handle... Must say I do think it was staying in 5 a bit longer than I'm used to but Trans temp would increase with this as well as did consumption before it would drop back, so definitely not enough of a change that I would be able to say its worth the $1300

On the way back I drove it like I normally would when towing - in "s" mode and pretty much in 4 95% of the 3 hour drive. I'd say the difference is marginally better when it come to holding pace for a bit longer coming onto a hill than it used to.

Above said - one very noticeable difference is consumption (not something I particularly care about) - It has definitely increased by about 5ltr/100k both while towing and not. to be honest this is something I wasn't expecting as I thought the tune would have leaned out the fuel side of things.

Filled up tank a few ks away from house - round trip was just shy of 600klms... light came on before I got home and according to Scangauge has 22ltr left in tank when I got home - avg 30ltr/100k

Anyways - my un bias opinion on this is that its been the single biggest waste of money on this car to date and I'm fairly disappointed I got sucked in by all the hype (mostly on the FJ Forums)...
Should've spend my money on a full exhaust upgrade instead... gains would have been equally disappointing I'm sure, but at least I'd have had a nice brand-new exhaust to show for my money..

[rascal Member Find all posts View Profile Close rascal]

That’s Really disappointing... And a little surprising.
I tow a large heavy enclosed trailer, (in S always) and found economy much better with the tune cos it can use 5th more often now, where before 5th would cut out as soon as it even looked like a hill was coming.
Actually I noticed a 5l/100km difference like you did, except it was the other way... ie was getting 22l/100 before and now I’m getting 17l/100.
I do manually drop back to 4th for most hills and change to 5th at the top which is prob contributing a bit to the gains, as I had to leave it in 4th the whole time before.

as an aside I had my auto serviced a week ago (@90000 just for peace of mind) just before my last 200km run to Phillip island Track and back on Sunday and it ran a bit cooler than previously. There is one 3km long really big hill on the way home which normally sees the auto nudging 100deg as it’s working hard holding 100kmh the whole climb and this time it didn’t crack 90deg.

anyway, your real world results are your results, And as I said really disappointing.
i wonder if the FJ cruisers run a more sedate tune from factory as they do seem to report a much bigger effect when tuned?

['Dan' Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 'Dan']

Has to be the worst result I've heard posted on it anywhere for sure.

I'd be asking DEM/Raptor the question, you should now be on you second full tank of 98 yeah? or 3rd? So it should have settled.

30L per hundred towing is nuts, something is off.

Apparently (I can only go on sheets) you will get gains from the exhaust, but they will mostly be up top, similar to cams it seems to just move the torque band further up the rev range which is what givs you the extra top end power. That might work for you depending on what revs the car does towing in 4th?

On the economy front, I'd be checking the Oxygen sensors for a start.

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

Hi Mate - that was on second tank - going to go out now and top up with third tank on this file - have send my feedback to Tim with all data so lets see what they come back with. Should have noted before the increase in fuel is also obvious around town - ie to Bunnings and back (~15k round trip) having a Scangauge on the dash AVG is one of my gauges so note (mental note, I don't write it down every time :-)) and the same trips prior that would be between 13-16 are now between 24-29.
Car just had 160K and oxygen sensor were checked, even had new spark plugs put in and MAF sensor cleaned.

['Dan' Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 'Dan']

Keen to see what they say, that's definitely not been my experience at all so something about our setups is different.

It shouldn't matter but my car has 83ks on it, but I can't imagine consumption magically jumping 5L just due to k's alone unless something was amiss.

Keep us posted.