150 Suspension measurements.

[Guest Close Guest]

OK. Maybe there was a typo in the model number in the coil and it was labelled a B instead of a C.

[craigm Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close craigm]

OK. Maybe there was a typo in the model number in the coil and it was labelled a B instead of a C.

My thoughts too. It's happened before....

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

They look to be a heavy coil.



Those support a steel bar. 795 to the guard.

Measure the wire diameter and post that up. Mark knows every wire size ever used...

[burntoast Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close burntoast]

I think u guys are on to it even though it says toyo65b on the coil I reckon it must be a 65c(constant load spring

I don't have any vernier to measure coil diameter performance is 18.5mm
Constant load is 19mm
It'll have to order new springs and try or iron man might send me some

Thanks everyone for your help

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

My Prado 2012 v6 front 830 rear 840
A new prado is front 760 rear 790
So 70mm lift

Thanks for your reply buddy I'm a little worried now and or confused about the droop
The front seems to be a very stiff ride but it is the toyo65b
Witch is the performance spring not the constant load springs

Front strut is 24750fe 552mm-425mm part number off struts
Spring is toyo65b 370mm part number off box
It was sold as a kit matching kit I dunno I'm confused I have
265 70 17 I measured from bottom of rim to gaurd

Struts and sprngs appear to be assembled correctly doesn't look like there is a spacer

It has superior engineering sway bar relocators does this matter

I'm just hoping it will drop to 810

If it drops or settles 20mm I get 20mm more droop right?
So Eg 810 to 855
Witch would be 45mm of droop still not much.... And that's only if it drops settles by itself...
60mm is the recommended minimum
Any suggestions on how to fix would be appreciated or is it ok to leave it as is
I'm going to lay across bonnet and pretend I'm a bull bar while wifey drives around in it today should be less stress on cv's

Hey,

The real issue here is your very short front struts.

If the Ironman strut is really 552mm open length, you shouldn't be using it in a lifted geometry. The OEM open length for the 150 Prado is 555mm, so you are 3mm short of a strut that is run at a 750mm ride height.

I don't have an Ironman handy to measure...but I will hopefully have one measured later this afternoon to double check the lengths.

Take a look at the plot in this thread what happens to your droop when you lift on short open length struts. The plot has been made from 120 measurements, but the chassis, arm dimensions and leverage ratio are identical for the 150;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-Prado-120-IFS

The OEM front ride height on the 150 is more like 750mm in most cases, so you may have closer to 80mm of lift, or around 3.15 inches. No matter, for 70-80mm lift, your Ironman strut is somewhere in between the black and red lines, and you can see it matches your 25mm of droop.

I don't have the numbers yet for that Ironman coil you're running, but if it is really only 370mm free height, it must have a very high spring rate to get you that much lift. I'll hopefully get it measured this arvo as well.

Ironman are using coils from Kings, and they won't settle very much (at least the latest versions). You will prolly only see in the order of 10mm of settling on the ride height over a couple of years, assuming the front end stays the same weight of course. The latest King coils are actually very good in terms of minimal coil set.

None of these numbers however solve the problem you have.

The short end to this story is that you need much longer struts, and potentially a much less stiff coil.

Ironman can tell you 24/7 that their gear is matched, but the results are 25mm of droop, so no, not matched.

...also, the swaybar relocation blocks will not affect your lift.

Get back to you again soon hopefully with some measurements to confirm.

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey again,

I've checked with John at Zordos Suspension, and the numbers are confirmed for the strut lengths (at least by the catalogue). You should measure this yourself to confirm, but it at least makes sense in terms of the droop you have.

Your coil is 370mm and 863lb/in, very high rate.

John has a couple of good suggestions for you;

1. Space the strut down a little. If you have say 15mm of thread exposed, you can put something like 10mm of spacers under the bottom washer. This will improve your droop and decrease the preload on the coil and drop your ride height a little.

2. The better option is to replace your OEM strut cap with a Roadsafe strut cap, which will lower your strut by around 20mm. This will fix the droop.

John has the Roadsafe caps, give him a call!

Best

Mark

[ZORDO Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ZORDO]

Ironman coils
TOY065B 18.4 mm x 370mm spring rate 863 ft lbs
TOY065C 19mm x 370mm spring rate 960 ft lbs
These specs are from the catalogue
Cheers

[Guest Close Guest]

Ironman coils
TOY065B 18.4 mm x 370mm spring rate 863 ft lbs
TOY065C 19mm x 370mm spring rate 960 ft lbs
These specs are from the catalogue
Cheers

If that is the spring rate stated in the catalogue, someone should tell Ironman that those units are invalid. ft lbs are units for torque. Perhaps they were measuring it as though it was a torsion spring ???

[ZORDO Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ZORDO]

It actually says lbf/in
Also N/mm
TOY065B -151 n/mm
TOY 065C -168 n/mm
cheers

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

If that is the spring rate stated in the catalogue, someone should tell Ironman that those units are invalid. ft lbs are units for torque. Perhaps they were measuring it as though it was a torsion spring ???

Hey amts,

It says lbf/in in the catalog...that's not quite technically correct, it is pound/inch, not pound-force/inch. Units for spring rate can be expressed in mass/length or force/length, and many write lb.f/in when converting from N/mm etc., when they really mean just lb/in.

I just checked the conversion from 151N/mm, all good, the 863lb/in figure is close enough!

The OEM spring rate for the 150 is 780lb/in, and the very boatish OEM handling is well known, the OEM struts and shocks are very poorly under valved for such stiff coils.

The much stiffer OEM coils for the 150 are not seen in any other IFS related vehicles, 120/FJ/Hilux etc. all run around 600lb/in for OEM coils.

In my opinion whatever reason Toyota uses to justify the stiffer coils for the 150 is uncalled for. Some of it is the extra kerb weight of the 150...there are heavier 120's running around on 600lb/in coils, even past GVM. There are GVM upgrades on the 120 which use 600lb/in coils.

I don't believe you will find an after market strut that is valved high enough in rebound to cope with 863lb/in. In that respect I would like to know the valving that Ironman use to cope with these coils. The C coil is 960lb/in. Both these B and C coils are massive overkill. You can run a 600lb/in coil in the 150 and run 120 spec after market struts and everything is rosy.

Running such high rate front coils also means you will never get your front:rear suspension frequency ratio underneath 1:1, and you will always suffer from vehicle pitch, something I always try to minimise in my 120.

Unfortunately none of this solves the very low 25mm droop that burntoast has.

Burntoast, you need to be very clear with Ironman about this problem. The fact they have let you loose in the world with 25mm of droop is highly irresponsible and dangerous. As I have said previously, I have driven Prados with 30mm of droop on the IFS, and have personally experienced the bumhole puckering experience of a wheel lifting off on a high speed cambered bend. Not to mention the continual topping out your very short struts will be getting, they will be burnt toast in no time!

If Ironman are not willing to refund you, then you will need to modify your setup substantially. Not only will you need the Roadsafe strut caps to get you some decent droop back, you will need to get rid of those ridiculous high rate coils.

As Ironman coils are just King coils made to Ironmans stupid specifications, I would be asking for a direct swap to something like a King KTFR-101H, 385mm, 660lb/in.

I feel for you with this problem, the IFS on Prados can be a painful learning curve, been there done that got the sticker.

I would be making some very serious demands of Ironman if I were in your position.

Get into them, settle for nothing less than 660lb/in coils and get that strut dropped down with Roadsafe strut caps, it will fix all of your issues.

...now go and measure your rear droop and lets see how much more shouting you need to do!

Best

Mark

[burntoast Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close burntoast]

Thanks guys
I measured the coil thickness and they are 19.2mm was a mix up in factory I guess the are supposed to be 18.5
iron man have been very helpful and have offered to send me some different springs and swap them out for me
I will get some road safe caps from John also

Rear 840 to 945 105 droop

[burntoast Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close burntoast]

ok so i got my new springs sent from iron man the lightest ones performance springs (toyo65b) and 4x4 shop fitted them up the otherday

got the car home measured it up
830in front

150 km and 60 hrs later

825mm in the front and 850 droop = 25mm of droop bottom of rim to gaurd...
is there anyone else running ironman suspension
and what is the height of a standard new 2012 gxl petrol 150
doesnt seem right to me

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey,

Standard height on the front will be in the 740-750mm range.

It's the high spring rates of those coils which are ruining your day.

I would be going back immediately, and ask for 660lb/in King KTFR-101H.

Your Prado shouldn't be driven with 25mm of droop.

Can you measure the coil seat distance on your strut? Measure from bottom bush ring eye center up to lowest point on the coil.

It may be the strut coil seat also sits too high.

Hope you get this sorted asap!

Best

Mark

[burntoast Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close burntoast]

Hey,

Standard height on the front will be in the 740-750mm range.

It's the high spring rates of those coils which are ruining your day.

I would be going back immediately, and ask for 660lb/in King KTFR-101H.

Your Prado shouldn't be driven with 25mm of droop.

Can you measure the coil seat distance on your strut? Measure from bottom bush ring eye center up to lowest point on the coil.

It may be the strut coil seat also sits too high.

Hope you get this sorted asap!

Best

Mark

22cm

[5logs Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 5logs]

After a few thousand km on the suspension with a ARB bar and second battery I have measured mine again, TJM 4000 series, HD springs, Front 765 rear 860. Like a number of TJM suspensions on here the settle is very dissapointing, mine is sitting at factory height now.. Still to add the winch. I'm glad I looked thru past posts on here and found that mine too only has the single thin spacer, I'll go back and get them to fit the missing spacers so I actually have a lift in the front.