Amada vs Cal off-road/Bilsten

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

You may find that although the coil is only 22mm shorter, it may have a lighter spring rate that will sit it that 40mm shorter at it's loaded height.
For instance, some springs may be exactly the same height as an OE part, but sit the car 30mm higher when installed due to the higher spring rate.
Regards, Jason.

Yip - Understand and fully agree and the fact that the first springs they send and SHD and these just have HD would suggest so, Don't forget though that all this time the guy at Cal is convinced (or atleast trying to convince me) that there is no such thing and it is only the height that is different...

I am hopeful that this should do it though

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

I would double check if they have given you a linear or progressive coil.
A 398mm linear coil is quite tall, and should still give you plenty of lift on the front!
...the tallest off the shelf linear coil is C59-314 from Dobinsons, which is 405mm free height. Most guys running 3"+ use this coil.
Best
Mark

Yip - The set they sent me this time is Linear.

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

Hmm better check my Bilstein 5100 for CV binding. It is supposedly 573mm open length. I have a diff drop though.

I think you will be fine - The measurement I took of 580mm was with it backed off a little so that it wasn't binding.

Binding occurs somewhere between 585 and 590.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

I think you will be fine - The measurement I took of 580mm was with it backed off a little so that it wasn't binding.

Binding occurs somewhere between 585 and 590.

Hey,

Now you need to be careful!

Amts has a 120 series Prado.

On my own 120, the CV boot binds (individual folds in the boot are completely pushed against each other with no more flex) at 578mm open length, and the rotor is getting very hard to turn.

On the 150, I would want to see a few more measurements before finalising the figure. Saying that binding occurs somewhere between 585-590mm isn't good enough. Did you also inspect your CV boot??

No offense, but I would want to see a few more figures from 150 drivers...just to get a safe working average!

...currently I would say 580mm maximum!

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hmm better check my Bilstein 5100 for CV binding. It is supposedly 573mm open length. I have a diff drop though.

Hey amts,

On my 120, the CV boot is bound at 578mm, and the rotor is getting hard to turn.

Without a diff drop, at full droop my CV angle is 20.2 degrees.

With your diff drop kit in, the angle reduces to 19.7 degrees, so at full droop, the diff drop doesn't really make a difference, maybe 1 degree within error.

The benefit of the diff drop is keeping the CV angles nice at ride height.

The real concern with running past 570mm open length on the 120 and getting close to the 578mm CV boot bind limit is how much flex there is in the bottom strut bush.

After pulling out my old 712's, the bushes were way off center!

I think you'll be ok at 573mm, maybe you can swap in new bushes every 6 months or so just for peace of mind!

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey all,

Back on to the original subject matter of this thread, the Amada Xtreme's are now looking like a much simpler off the shelf purchase from Superior! Their front struts are 405-575mm, rear shocks are 378-605mm. See here for more info;

http://www.superiorengineering.com.a...3_100_913_2137

I'd like to hear some more technical opinions from anyone running the Amada setup.

I was interested in the Amada struts a while back, but I decided not to purchase them due to build quality issues. I have heard first hand through the sales staff at Superior that the original Amada Xtreme strut design suffered badly with sealing, and that a triple sealing design had to be utilised.

I have also heard second hand through various forums that the Amada's have not gone well on outback journeys, and had to be replaced upon return. Poor valving??

This information was not at all inspiring for throwing money at them!

...on the other side of the coin, they apparently have some "comp pedigree" behind them, take that for what it's worth.

Any opinions??

Best

Mark

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

Hey,
Now you need to be careful!
Amts has a 120 series Prado.
On my own 120, the CV boot binds (individual folds in the boot are completely pushed against each other with no more flex) at 578mm open length, and the rotor is getting very hard to turn.
On the 150, I would want to see a few more measurements before finalising the figure. Saying that binding occurs somewhere between 585-590mm isn't good enough. Did you also inspect your CV boot??
No offense, but I would want to see a few more figures from 150 drivers...just to get a safe working average!
...currently I would say 580mm maximum!
Best
Mark

No offense taken mate - I'm by no means an expert on Vehicle Suspension Dynamics :-)

If I can I'll spend a little time this evening (in the office today) and take pics etc.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey zero,

I would also be pulling out a rear shock and check what closed-open length they've sold you, as you may not have much articulation in the rear either.

The three versions I have been told by Sean that are available are;

368-580mm
380-590mm
380-620mm

I am not sure at what open length the swaybar will bind on the 150 series, but I'm guessing that from the similar open lengths, 574mm for the 150 and 575mm for the 120, the swaybars prolly bind at a similar open length, which is around 615mm on the 120.

Both the 580mm and 590mm shocks will be useless on a 2" or over lift, so I would be making sure you have the 620mm open length rear shock.

You can put extended (up to 30mm) rear swaybar links in to make sure your shocks top-out before your swaybar binds.

I would also be double checking at what closed length your rear axle touches the bumpstops, to ensure you aren't near the 380mm closed length.

There's no point having 575mm open length struts on the front if your rear can't flex properly.

Best

Mark

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

Just messured rear shock open - very happy and relieved to report that it is 620mm Phew.... :-)

And I have put extended (adjustable) swaybar links on so all good there.

Got a set of swaybar plates on the front too.. think I'll be getting rid of them though... they only drop the swaybay about 10mm but they also move it back, closer to the struts by about 10mm as well so not happy with that.

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

My view on all of this is that the Bilstiens would be a better choice over Amada (if I went the Superior route I'd have gone ProFender) however I would avoid at all costs getting anything through CalOffroad... I will probably end up with a great setup but getting there is a nightmare and mostly because they are just simply not very good to deal with... Their phones mostly go to voice mail, they never, never respond to emails and the customer is never right...

BTW - If you look at the latest Fox list - They have now got specific Struts and Shocks listed for 150's Only no part numbers yet and they are TBD in available date.

[kenny5000 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close kenny5000]

BTW - If you look at the latest Fox list - They have now got specific Struts and Shocks listed for 150's Only no part numbers yet and they are TBD in available date.

Mmmmmm Fox would be nice. After all this and other peoples issues I think CalOffroad is off the list.

Hope you get it sorted soon!!!

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Just messured rear shock open - very happy and relieved to report that it is 620mm Phew.... :-)

And I have put extended (adjustable) swaybar links on so all good there.

Hey zero,

Some good news in your story for once!

So your rear setup sounds good to go, maybe some taller coils in the future if you're chasing more lift.

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Got a set of swaybar plates on the front too.. think I'll be getting rid of them though... they only drop the swaybay about 10mm but they also move it back, closer to the struts by about 10mm as well so not happy with that.

Hey zero,

Sounds like you have your relocation plates back the front, the front swaybar should move forward and down.

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

My view on all of this is that the Bilstiens would be a better choice over Amada (if I went the Superior route I'd have gone ProFender)

Hey zero,

I'll agree to disagree on this one.

I find in general that Bilstein valving is too soft, and really struggles to cycle out heavy vehicle pitch at low speeds. Jason might have some more input on this regarding his comments above about CalOffroad setting the valving between a Hilux and a Prado.

Weight wise, I can't see the front end of a Hilux being that much heavier than a Prado, so why would the Hilux valving be so much stiffer??

I'm running a Hilux strut from Driveline Services, and there's no difference in the valving between Hilux and a Prado with their struts.

The advantages I see in the Amada struts vs Bilstein struts is that the struts are threaded, so height is adjustable to any lift you want, the closed-open lengths are spot on to begin with, they have a remote reservoir with tunable gas pressure, and you can get the valving modified to whatever you want at Superior. The Amada's are also fully rebuildable.

Disadvantages with the Amada's are sealing and durability. I believe the sealing issue has been sorted now, and regarding durability, anyone want to comment on how many km's they've put on their Amada's, problems and issues??

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

After all this and other peoples issues I think CalOffroad is off the list.

Hey,

It is indeed both surprising and disappointing with CalOffroad.

They are clearly struggling with understanding technical issues, and their customer service is rubbish.

For anyone interested in a long travel Bilstein setup, I would suggest using Jason.

Best

Mark