Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

[dereki Member Find all posts View Profile Close dereki]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

My thoughts... just thoughts mind you.

Yes, if I had a winch I would use it in preference to a snatch. Much less likely to go wrong given the skill required by the snatcher (eg too easy to go to hard), the winch is easier to keep controlled and applies forces to the car slower, so friendlier to the car.

But.. I always like a plan B, cos I am paranoid... eg in case the winch or winch cable breaks, you have flat batteries, electrical problems due to submersion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MmrLWgM-2U (stolen from the vid section) The snatcher obviously went too hard, they probably didn't dig first, they have probably sntached like that 100's of times (desert setting) fatiguing the metal. But I do note that the tie down point wasn't the weak link, in fact it is unscathed and not bent. Make of this what you want, we will never know the full history or story behind this incident, but a winch, or maxtrax probably would not have ended like this.

D

[Richoson Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Richoson]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

I can't even imagine what force would have had to been applied to do damage such as breaking the chassis off as in the video. It just keeps coming back to using plain old fashioned common sense combined with experience.

Richo.

[Hutch Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hutch]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

Obviously the standard tow point is stronger than the chassis??

[Snaga Wishing I was lost Find all posts View Profile Close Snaga]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

Would having a winch be a suitable substitute for a front recovery point.

When picking up the car from ARB after getting the bar fitted, I was speaking to ARB about front recovery points, and the comment they made was "You dont need them now you have a winch, instead of getting someone to snatch you out if your bogged/stuck, just use the winch instead, thats what it is designed for.

With this in mind, they seem to believe that the need for a front recovery point for snatching is redundant. Thoughts?

What about a simple bogging on sand... a winch recovery seems OTT if you're travelling with someone who can give a gentle snatch in the right direction... :?

[tinkera Member Find all posts View Profile Close tinkera]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

HI ALLThat U TUBE footage looks to me like a side ways winch gone wrong they did say it was a pull.Prado down to floor pan winching on a angle saw similar a Fraser Island few years back tore short wheel based landcruiser in half.F250 big winch bad ending.Just shows how strong factory welded points are RE my post in RATED RECROVERY POINTS. Sorry to go off topic you can now go back to your may or maybes in the end like TOYOTA these companies are going to cover there arsess it,s easier to say they are not rated.TINKERA.

[ozchild Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close ozchild]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

Matt, why the need for after market recovery points. Are the factory points not good enough? On a couple of occasions on Stockton (beach Nth of Newcastle) I've aided in recovery by using these and in both instances found them to be quite satisfactory.

Cheers Mark

[Schaffer Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schaffer]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

Matt, why the need for after market recovery points. Are the factory points not good enough? On a couple of occasions on Stockton (beach Nth of Newcastle) I've aided in recovery by using these and in both instances found them to be quite satisfactory.

Cheers Mark

I can not believe why people keep asking that same question. Have a look in your booklet that came with your Prado. Somewhere in there it will talk about not applying execessive force to these. You will also find that reputable 4WD clubs will not allow these to be used as snatch recovery points. Tow point maybe but not a snatch. A weld is unreliable for the sort of force that is being exerted during a snatch recovery. A suitable bolt through the chassis is much more reliable and can easily be seen to determine if it is up to the job.

[Prado BB Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Prado BB]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

You will also find that reputable 4WD clubs will not allow these to be used as snatch recovery points. Tow point maybe but not a snatch. A weld is unreliable for the sort of force that is being exerted during a snatch recovery. A suitable bolt through the chassis is much more reliable and can easily be seen to determine if it is up to the job.

I will attest to that. My club will not allow you on any trip if you only have the factory tie down points. Also absolutely no recovery/snatch permitted with the tow ball as the anchor.

[ozchild Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close ozchild]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

Thanks for your reply Schaffer.
If you haven't already, have a peek at youtube for a "Prado recovery incident" vid. Long story short, during the snatch, the factory RP was tough enough, it was the chassis that let go! Apart from this youtube vid, I've never heard of a chassis break but I know there's been plenty of bent chassis' come out of big recoveries.
Perhaps another prerequisite that should be included for the GTG is chassis strengthening! A tad extreme, but where do you draw the line?

Cheers Mark

[A10 Member Find all posts View Profile Close A10]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

I can not believe why people keep asking that same question. Have a look in your booklet that came with your Prado. Somewhere in there it will talk about not applying execessive force to these.

Excessive force will damage anything - even your after market recovery points or the frame they are attached to. What we need to know is what force they can take.

A weld is unreliable for the sort of force that is being exerted during a snatch recovery. A suitable bolt through the chassis is much more reliable and can easily be seen to determine if it is up to the job.

What is your basis for this statement. There is a lot more to it than whether it is simply a weld or a bolt. I doubt that the average 4wd driver could tell whether a weld or a bolt would be adequate.

[Schaffer Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schaffer]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

I can not believe why people keep asking that same question. Have a look in your booklet that came with your Prado. Somewhere in there it will talk about not applying execessive force to these.

Excessive force will damage anything - even your after market recovery points or the frame they are attached to. What we need to know is what force they can take.

A weld is unreliable for the sort of force that is being exerted during a snatch recovery. A suitable bolt through the chassis is much more reliable and can easily be seen to determine if it is up to the job.

What is your basis for this statement. There is a lot more to it than whether it is simply a weld or a bolt. I doubt that the average 4wd driver could tell whether a weld or a bolt would be adequate.

Yes, you are correct that exessive force will damage anything. I will not refute that. The thing with a weld is that it is harder to see visible damage since the weld my still be holding but has fractures which are not visible. A bolt can be removed and inspected and replaced, in the field, if need be. A bit hard to do that with a weld, altough not impossible.

The other aspect I will mention again is that the factory booklet specifically calls them tie down points and does not recommend this sort of usage. Have a read on that before you use it. It hope it is relativerly easy to understand the difference in force between a static load when tieing down a vehicle on a trailer (as they are deigned for) versus the dynamic load that has an elastic force applied to it.

Have a search on the Google. It seems there are a lot of people all saying not to use the tie down points all for the same reason. Now that in itself does not mean it is fact but it should make you think and for about $100.00 for security then why question it. Try contacting the 4wd clubs around you and ask for their position on the use of tie down points for a recovery. Try contacting the state or national 4wd association even and get their view and why.

[ozchild Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close ozchild]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

Yeah...you raise some good points Schaffer. This is the beauty of forums isn't it? You ask a question, and in amongst the myriad of crap that comes back, get some good answers. Re the vid, I doubt an ARB or for that matter, any other after market RP would have saved the chassis.

Cheers Mark

[Ryzz Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ryzz]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

The problem is, unless im missing something very obvious. There is currently NO AFTERMARKET RECOVERY POINTS FOR THE 150's, the ARB Winch Bars do not have a recovery point built into them like the 120's did, nor has anyone else made anything suitable for the 150's yet. Which basically leaves you with either:

A: Snatch from the rear with a towkit shackle (excuse my layman's terms here)
B: A front mounted winch and a suitable load bearing object to winch from
C: A winch attached to someone else vehicle attached to the OEM Tiedown/tow points
D: Turfer attached to a suitable load bearing object

However, the ruling on the GTG saying that a front recovery hook/point must be installed instantly rules out any 150's for the reasons listed above.

As I mentioned, if I've really missed the bleeding obvious here, please correct me!

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

E: Don't get bogged :lol:

[Ryzz Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ryzz]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

E: Don't get bogged :lol:

You havent seen the way I drive 8)