Would you pull me out?

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

I will let you google that!

PS: didn't know the GTG posts opinions.

Gtg, he or she might have posted under that name by mistake.

I have no comment on "tie down", "towing", or "recovery points" and am staying out of this hornets nest.

But I'd just like to say this thread is awesome!!! Well done ####, i'd rep you but I apparently need to spread some more love elsewhere first lol.

Cheers
James

Thankx, I think it's been a ripper look at the views after 24 hrs.

Well the welded hoops didn't break in that video. Do the recovery plates attach further up the chassis than that break?

Lol...... Right! Thankx. I'd say they would tear right through the chassis or SHEAR off with the snatch that vehicle experienced.

[adrian5800 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close adrian5800]

Well the welded hoops didn't break in that video. Do the recovery plates attach further up the chassis than that break?

Standard aftermarket ones don't.. If you look at Michael's drawing in this post;

Without getting too detailed you can see that even if the load is applied parallel to the ground there is a moment initiated which will try to bend the points up or break the lower structure off. Even if yours hasn't bent that doesn't mean the loading isn't there it just means it hasn't reached a point where plastic deformation has occured.The aftermarket points deal with this offset loading through the basic design of how it is attached:There is no moment or couple transmitted to the chassis because the loading is transmitted through the chunk of steel that is the recovery point and it places the bolts in shear. So the bolts are loaded from the front and also up and down to take care of the eccentric loading BUT the key thing is the load is transmitted directly to the chassis not through a joint that is subjected to bending stress too. 4wds but I don't regret one minute of that. Because one day it might be me that needs a hand.

You can easily understand why the chassis broke where it did in the video.

Ades

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Absolutely, because the chassis material is only 2mm thick.
Nice snatch strap, what brand & size I wonder?
Or did they use a ow strap?

[mackayvx Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close mackayvx]

When does the bee fertilise the flower?
Too much hate and not enough love.

####, you knew you would start a fight with this one.
Its obvious your getting a kick off how many views this has had.

Just make a standard for the GTG and get the hell over it.

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

The aftermarket points deal with this offset loading through the basic design of how it is attached:

Michael I note the top end of your aftermarket recovery point overlaps the washer on one of the bullbar mount bolts. When TJM went to fit my recovery points they said this overlap wasn't safe since the plate wasn't sitting flush with the chassis/bullbar bracket and this could cause the bolt securing the top end of the recovery point to shear off. I'm no engineer so had to take them at their word. This is the reason why those same points have now been re-designed to remove that small section of metal that was overlapping. The manufacturer obviously thought the issue was worth rectifying and have worked with me to do that.

As to whether the Toyota welded tow points are strong enough for recovery or not I will leave that up to the experts.

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

I didn't pick up that overlap when I looked at the picture on my phone. That is a really bad design/install. The only way the aftermarket plates will work is if they are properly torqued up and have a flush fit to the chassis. Otherwise the bolts take the full load in shear and transfer this load to two small points where they insert into the chassis.

Basic joint engineering says that in shear if you aren't getting flush fit and friction between the plate and the chassis then all the load goes to the bolts and that's not the way it should work.

I'd say that installation is no better than the welded hoops. With the amount of moment that the recovery plate is putting on the bolts it is likely to act like a guillotine trying to cut the bolts. Think of the front bolt like the pivot of a pair of scissors and the second blot is what you are cutting. And this isn't fantasy either, I saw a bunch of high tensile bolts get cut just like that in an incident recently.

By the way my only interest is not the GTG rules but whether recovery points are worth installing and from what I'm seeing I'd say not.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

There is a spacer under the point. I still cannot understand why they didn't do this with yours and I can only imagine something with the KDSS got in the way.

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

There is a spacer under the point. I still cannot understand why they didn't do this with yours and I can only imagine something with the KDSS got in the way.

With a spacer between the chassis and the plate you put even more bending load into the bolts and what ever they attach into. Probably enough prattling on by me, but if you are going to argue that it is a rated or properly engineered solution then I'd like to see more than a SWL stamp on a piece of plate and some HT bolts.

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

There is a spacer under the point. I still cannot understand why they didn't do this with yours and I can only imagine something with the KDSS got in the way.

I did ask them about using a spacer but they said it wasn't an ideal solution. It wasn't anything to do with the KDSS, it was the whole not sitting flush thing.

I'm not having a go at you personally, I've seen plenty of Roadsafe 150 Recovery Point installs done on TJM bars the same way in the recovery point threads and most were done by reputable 4WD shops. Since my local TJM store said it wasn't the correct method of installation I chose not to have them fitted that way.

[BrettM Member Find all posts View Profile Close BrettM]

Nice read, yes I would pull you out and snatch you of those tow points. If they are welded anything like mine are then you would need a lot of force to break them and I couldn't see why you would put that much force in a recovery, use common sense. As for factory welds they have QA in place for monitoring welding and the machines will have set operating guild lines to operate in. I'm a boilermaker / welder by trade and have my QA/QC welding inspectors cert, I will trust a weld over a bolt. I have made my own recovery point as some of you might have seen in my build thread, those were made and fitted as I know some clubs and people wouldn't pull me out off the tow points. My 2 cents worth cheers Brett

[Trekrider Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Trekrider]

Perhaps I should just paint my loops yellow - all good then

[BrettM Member Find all posts View Profile Close BrettM]

Yes Trekrider yellow for caution red for danger

[Corigator Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Corigator]

Looking at that video,

Are you saying that rated recovery points would have stopped the chassis from being ripped off? or does it show that the factory loops are stronger than the chassis, and the argument is academic?

I'm confused

[BrettM Member Find all posts View Profile Close BrettM]

I think it shows the loops are strong but who's to say that the chassis didn't have any stress cracks to begin with, it might have had a rough life jumping over dunes

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Nice read, yes I would pull you out and snatch you of those tow points. If they are welded anything like mine are then you would need a lot of force to break them and I couldn't see why you would put that much force in a recovery, use common sense. As for factory welds they have QA in place for monitoring welding and the machines will have set operating guild lines to operate in. I'm a boilermaker / welder by trade and have my QA/QC welding inspectors cert, I will trust a weld over a bolt. I have made my own recovery point as some of you might have seen in my build thread, those were made and fitted as I know some clubs and people wouldn't pull me out off the tow points. My 2 cents worth cheers Brett

Hey Brett, Well of the 2 2014gtg committee members that are or were members of 4x4 clubs, those clubs don't exclude these standard welded points.
To be honest it's looking like a minority believe these points are no good.
Video evidence shows what I'd expect to happen with too much right foot, or perhaps the wrong strap/s etc.