Our STUPID laws

[RareSense Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RareSense]

Raresense, I have great respect for you and the other honorable officers. I don't know whether I could do the job, and I must say that all of the police that I have worked and socialized with have been top folk. But one or two bad apples will taint the whole barrel, and it seems as though they operate with impunity and affect the perception of the public generally. There is also a demonstrated reluctance (I have experienced it several times in my neighbourhood )by police to take an interest in property crime and antisocial behavior because everyone knows the courts will put them back, unpunished, on the street tomorrow. It must be be rather demoralizing to see your time wasted thus. In the industry I work in, 15-20yrs ago there was respect, trust and understanding with the regulator but that changed when the dept. started to get creative with the interpretation of the rules and began punishing minor infringements with fines etc (policing only) rather than encouraging safety. These days you are advised to call your lawyer before speaking with the regulator whereas in the past it would be sorted over a cup of coffee. All that remains is suspicion and mistrust. Any of this sound familiar?

Cheers T303:- Yes bad apples in any industry is a problem, in my time we ended up vetting them soon enough. I was also a field training officer so I got to vet potential HWP wannabes (high failure rate in my time with min 3 years service) and accessed permanent members. Let me tell you we did cull them in fact I had a senior officer that I was instrumental in having him dismissed from the HWP due to not being suitable for HWP duties (rude and aggressive). We did have check and performance reviews relating to behavior. Seriously, we worked one out at day time then doubled up after dinner so you got to work out the personalities in your section, if you were a wombat it would quickly be addressed. I trained mine to speak to motorist as you'd like your mother spoken to and only escalate appropriately as the need arose. I drove the point we were humans and we therefore make mistakes so be fair and use your discretion, don't forget to caution,, further I always said don't book someone if you do it yourself off duty period ie:late indicating etc as at the end of the day you have to look yourself in the mirror so do what's right.. Simple really. In tactical I did both agility and Phyc test periodically and I was still attached to HWP so if your being a peanut it'll eventually come out in the wash.

To answer your questions: Firstly, I believe Police should be working with communities and industries to achieve a greater good and standard in society through a balance of consultation, education and enforcement where appropriate. Thus hopefully we can better reduce road trauma, crime or other respective areas such as liquor and gaming. I believe there is a lot to be gained in a collaborative approach in policing especially with certain industries that become mutually beneficial for all parties and greater public.
Secondly: Yes it was demoralising and frustrating at times, especially with the leniency and inconsistency of courts or probation and parole. I eventually lost a lot faith in the Judicial system. The way I kept going was telling myself that as long as I did my job to the best of my ability and brought these offenders before the courts then I was doing good and the right thing. However.....whatever sentence the judge decided on was on his conscience and societies as they ultimately accept it. Dare I mention Jill Meagher murder in Melbourne or recently the coward that sucker punched a teen whilst on good behaviour killing the teen in SYDNEY then getting 4 years .... Really!!!! What message are we sending out there for taking a life? what deterrent? Yes at times as you'd put all this work into a brief of evidence to have the matter proved and dismissed or the offender given a pathetic sentence which you felt embarrassed as well as sorry for the victim and their families. Sadly, I remember joking with the Dectectives outside of a court, they had a druggie on an aggregated break and enter (injured victim in break in) Assault OABH, demand money by menace. My matter was: refuse supply blood test Drive Under influence Drug, self administer heroin, drive manner dangerous (high speed chase 15min) 99 x goods in custody (loot in the boot and car) and two break and enters. Detectives peanut got released on good behavior and drug rehab programe for belting a person in a break and enter and bashing them to get a PIN on credit card. Whilst mine got Gaoled on the traffic matters whilst the criminal matters where pathetic with no consecutive sentencing all served concurrent so in short let off and a waste of time You had to laugh! Seriously the traffic act is more powerful than the criminal. Once you get in a car you loose so many rights, ie; police legally can actually inspect and search your car for defects with no warrant, if they find other substance or weapons etc it still a legal and justified search

So yes T303 it's sounds all too familiar, you really do get more by working with than against whether it be the police, dept, or industry body etc- all benefit mutually by a collaborative approach. Cheers

[Corigator Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Corigator]

RareSense

I vote for you as Police Commissioner

[t303 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close t303]

RareSense

I vote for you as Police Commissioner

Nah, I suspect he is too honest and intelligent for that!
Rank such as that often does not come from general duties. The local force actually hire administrators intended for ranking positions because they consider it a management function and thus policing CDF is not required. I was amazed once when a family of drug mules were trying to get on a flight and as they walked in the door they saw this police commander in full regalia sitting there reading the paper. The mules sh@t themselves, and actually rear-ended each other at the door as the first one stopped dead in his tracks. They were running in circles, calling on the phones in whispered voices and I think they were actually flushing drugs down the dunny. It was so obvious it could have been a Monty Python skit. I had already called the narcs but it looked like they were about to bolt so I called this commander into the office on some pretext and told him I had called the cavalry. He asked me why; he genuinely had no idea what was happening and even then had no intention of tackling the situation. He had no spidey senses whatsoever.
To rise to the top of any large organization primarily requires keen political sense (and sometimes it helps to know where the bodies are buried). Another more simple explanation I have heard: the biggest t#rds always float to the top!
Here endeth today's life lesson. ;-}

[RareSense Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RareSense]

In the same vein, I would love to know why its ok for "highway patrol" to engage in acts the rest of us would receive huge fines for.

I see them parked on painted medians in the middle of the road quite often. The other day a revenue raising car was parked in the middle of a multi lane road, in the right turn lane, made from the cut out of the median strip. Not only did traffic have to go around this car to turn right, it also caused traffic to bank up.

Back to the topic of this thread - I love the logic. If you leave your window down, your car may get broken into. So we will relieve you of your hard earned anyway.

I have had a few cars broken into. A brick or a jimmy was the method of choice. I reported it for insurance, but the cops let me know in no uncertain terms that I really was wasting their time. Yep - just doing their job...

Beach:- Police are given certain powers including exemptions under the traffic act so they can obviously carry out their duties effectively for example exceeding the speed limit, for example if an offenders cars is detected doing 160kph then the police vehicle has to obviously travel a lot faster to catch and stop the offender. Before you raise the subject of high speed pursuits and the dangers etc let me add this. There needs to be an attitude shift to support police and not blame them. Seriously when a police vehicle engage its lights and sirens it's asking motorists to pull over and stop or get out of the way, this is something universally known in most western worlds, kids play cops and robbers and it's part of getting your drivers licence. Now decent folk stop, idiots try and run. What they need to do is focus media and community attention on stopping the idiots, again as previously stated in other posts society needs to stop making excuses for offenders and or people across many areas even compensation claims where accountability and responsibility shifts back to the individual and RareSence prevails I call it this as it appears that common sense is not that common at all because a lot of people appear to be lacking it! Lol Further there needs to be a mandatory goal sentence say 5 years first offences 10 year second offense etc with magistrates being consistent to curb behaviour and stop pursuits. If they want to run from police there is nothing stopping them from pulling over getting out of the vehicle and hoofing it. People fail to realise that a vehicle is potentially more dangerous than a gun, the accelerator being like a trigger they can kill all it's occupants and or pedestrians or other vehicles occupants as well in an accident.

As to police parking or "hiding" to detect offenses really? Is it the policeman's fault that you where speeding and got caught because you don't want to comply to the speed limits in place for greater communities safety????? Sorry I will have to agree to disagree here, I think there is a lot of good of police being on medium strips etc high visibility and acts as a deterrent reminding motorists that there is consequences for not obeying the road rules. Hey you even mentioned it in a motoring forum! So I make no apologies but if you've seen the carnage and aftermath resulting from road trauma, I'm sure you would be a staunch supporter too. In closing none of us like being booked myself included but the solution is easy - change your attitude and driving its a priverlidge not a right to drive where the buck stops with you the person in control of the vehicle, if your doing the right thing you've got nothing to fear from police or to complain about. I used to tell young fellas yo pick there opportunity. Go somewhere safe and remote, farm, paddock, track days. I still believe govt. should run track and training days and throw in education of the dangers of irresponsible driving on roads.

As to your comments regarding police not being interested "just doing there job" you in your own words stated you reported it for "insurance" purposes, depending what is stolen (gun) or fingerprints left behind then yes sad fact you are wasting their time, ring the reporting crime hotline number for insurance. Police will still get the intelligence from your incident that will be correlated in the intelligence unit and disseminated appropriately, they would work out times and frequency of incidents, makes of vehicles etc and task police resources appropriately or set up a sting or view security footage. Unfortunately, police are a scarce resource. I remember stations like Bankstown it was normal to have a list of major jobs on the pad to do prior to starting 20 upwards that where all serious in nature, assaults, stabbings serious domestics, brawls etc. Minor offenses took us sadly sometimes days or a telephone call would have to suffice, in fact I recall at times some domestics would even have to be done by phone as we were too busy with life threatening and priority jobs to attend. That said I know it's frustrating having your window smashed etc it's happened to me too, I bought a $80 replacement and took me an hour to fix. Yes I reported the items stolen to 134444 crime hotline. I'm just trying to shed some light as to why at times these poor buggers (police) appear not interested they're could be overwhelmed. I remember people being peeved or had attitude at times either at the station waiting to be served or when we showed up 3 or 4 hours late to take an "insurance" report. I remember one extremely rude lady gave me a mouthful, I'd just finished a cot death and called through doing a favour for another car trying to help them and also alleviate this ladies wait as I was on my way to the morgue to book in the deceased baby in. I apologised for the delay and mentioned we were unfortunately inundated with more pressing and life threatening jobs. No, this selfish individual cared not, I apologised again asked her to calm down and report the matter to me, she persisted abusing me, I kindly warned her that I would leave and she could contact the police again when she was ready to be civil. She persisted and I left. I received a complaint too If I only a video camera you wouldn't believe how professional we were. So yes at times some of the public can be difficult too! So I hope this may shed some light so you can get an understanding of the circus some officers work in! In closing a friend recently asked what was different about policing it's just a job. I thought about it and said, it's the constant threat of violence that can erupt anytime any place even from a simple vehicle stop and at times you hear about the officers that die. It's the constant aggression you face, the randomness of it all, you live an abnormal life. Police go through red lights, go into to violent and dangerous situations were normal people run away, you can take people's freedoms away, it's going to unknown violent situations were all you get is VKG (radio) warning you that phone call was terminated - yelling and screaming heard and there's no back up so proceed with caution, making at times decisions in split seconds that will be deliberated in courts for days sometimes taking years ahh the list is long but remember for all the times people rant about disliking or hating police, yet first time their in trouble they turn to you for help! Yeap all part of the job! Lol Lol . Spare a thought for these "dreaded" HWP officers - vehicles stops are very dangerous from so many perspectives, it's not a nice job. For those in selling, think of how you'd sell a $300 plus fine in these economic times???? . Yeap, most times I got a thank you because of approach and attitude not just fines but locking people up. I always looked that I was representing the public best interest believing that any person should be able to walk our streets without fear and in safety (sadly this isn't the case in all locations but definitely the majority)

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

Yeah rare sense you can have your job lol I would hate to be in the force these days with all the dead shits you have to deal with, courts not backing you up, all the bloody do-gooders no wonder a lot of kids have no respect. I remember years ago (about20) my cousin being the hot headed loud mouth he was got pulled up on a Xmas day for speeding bout 78/80 in a 60. I told be nice it's Xmas day you may just get a warning, NOoo he had to big mouth himself straight away. Cop didn't get a word in, my cousin, ""Spose your #uc#n Santa clause and your gunna wish me merry Xmas eh a##hole"" well we ended up having to walk as the cop (rightly so) handed him about half a dozen fines including I think was a red sticker on windscreen which meant a tow job.... Cop even said to him "mate honest truth you were just going to get a warning to back off a tad for your speed" I just shook my head and started walking. It took a while but he now is actually quit a calm and very quit sort of person.. Never have worked out what changed him. Priblem
is his son is now a bigmouth. Won't be long before sure some one will shut it for him..... Cheers Steve

[Danda Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Danda]

Yeah rare sense you can have your job lol I would hate to be in the force these days with all the dead shits you have to deal with, courts not backing you up, all the bloody do-gooders no wonder a lot of kids have no respect. I remember years ago (about20) my cousin being the hot headed loud mouth he was got pulled up on a Xmas day for speeding bout 78/80 in a 60. I told be nice it's Xmas day you may just get a warning, NOoo he had to big mouth himself straight away. Cop didn't get a word in, my cousin, ""Spose your #uc#n Santa clause and your gunna wish me merry Xmas eh a##hole"" well we ended up having to walk as the cop (rightly so) handed him about half a dozen fines including I think was a red sticker on windscreen which meant a tow job.... Cop even said to him "mate honest truth you were just going to get a warning to back off a tad for your speed" I just shook my head and started walking. It took a while but he now is actually quit a calm and very quit sort of person.. Never have worked out what changed him. Priblem
is his son is now a bigmouth. Won't be long before sure some one will shut it for him..... Cheers Steve

Yes totally agree, then you get me with no criminal record and cop the full lot for a first time and a dead pan no way when I ask for a caution as an impression on the cops I can say I wont be forgetting them in a hurry well done boys yet another fan (NOT)

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Came across this on Facebook today, I think it's for NSW. Quite interesting, few their I didn't know (or forgot )

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

So you get fined more for playing loud music than you do for being a shite driver?

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

So you get fined more for playing loud music than you do for being a shite driver?

Yeah I noticed that too, it's even more than using a mobile while driving which is the one they keep harping on about here in SA.

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

I guess those fines are based on the annoyance factor.

[RareSense Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RareSense]

RareSense

I vote for you as Police Commissioner

Cheers Coriigator, I preferred battling the criminals on the street better chance of survival least you can see the knives coming, unlike politicians the smiling assassins you don't know who's knifing you in the back and it's not a fair fight. Lol lol lol

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Yeah rare sense you can have your job lol I would hate to be in the force these days with all the dead shits you have to deal with

A woman has complained about the way 2 coppers lifted her after finding her hanging by a rope attempting to commit suicide.

[RareSense Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RareSense]

Yeah rare sense you can have your job lol I would hate to be in the force these days with all the dead shits you have to deal with, courts not backing you up, all the bloody do-gooders no wonder a lot of kids have no respect. I remember years ago (about20) my cousin being the hot headed loud mouth he was got pulled up on a Xmas day for speeding bout 78/80 in a 60. I told be nice it's Xmas day you may just get a warning, NOoo he had to big mouth himself straight away. Cop didn't get a word in, my cousin, ""Spose your #uc#n Santa clause and your gunna wish me merry Xmas eh a##hole"" well we ended up having to walk as the cop (rightly so) handed him about half a dozen fines including I think was a red sticker on windscreen which meant a tow job.... Cop even said to him "mate honest truth you were just going to get a warning to back off a tad for your speed" I just shook my head and started walking. It took a while but he now is actually quit a calm and very quit sort of person.. Never have worked out what changed him. Priblem
is his son is now a bigmouth. Won't be long before sure some one will shut it for him..... Cheers Steve

Hehehe SteveM can just picture your cousin . Dealt with many a big mouth unfortunately, had countless situations out there like that where they fail the attitude test when you intended only to caution them. Very common obviously genetic big mouthitis for it to run in the family hehehe Another thing a lot of people forget is if they Deny the offense then ask for a caution what chance you had to get one is gone. Logically you can not caution someone for something they do not know was wrong.... Period. You have no alternative but to write them up. I usually cautioned someone for a few offenses and wrote them up for one or depending on the offense situation and location lower it to the lessor speeding fine eg if it was borderline 94kph in 60kph and they admitted it and were genuinely sorry having a good attitude I'd drop it down to over 15kph but under 30kph (it's all changed now) difference in both points and fine usually got a thank you for that. Hehehe must say there were some very funny incidences too!

[RareSense Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RareSense]

A woman has complained about the way 2 coppers lifted her after finding her hanging by a rope attempting to commit suicide. They should have deviated via maccas and got a burger and a coke before going to the job.

Hehehehehehe I bet they were rope-able! Lol lol

[RareSense Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RareSense]

I guess those fines are based on the annoyance factor.

Big time, good for curing cases of big mouthitis or attitude fail. In all seriousness, some of these guys you could seriously hear coming with the bass doff doffing miles off. Problem was we did receive numerous complaints about car stereos from the public hence the ticket. In quiet streets etc late in the night and or early morning also how do you hear a siren of an ambulance etc coming through a red light? Or a slapping sound prior to loosing a wheel off your car because they didn't change their tyre properly! It takes a few idiots to wreck it for everybody. I remember the complaints received about Bondi from car hoons coming into a build up area and doing donuts, drag racing etc. Poor sillies upset the policy makers and some very influential people in the area......... As a result new fines, confiscation and impounding of vehicles came about.