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Errors/Malfunctions on 2020 VX Prado

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  • gxl_d4d
    replied
    0w30 oil burns in my car even after 40 000km of running in. Town driving doesn't result in much oil loss but highway driving does.

    I image 0w20 would make the issue worse. The new prado's might end up being like Subaru's, burning enough oil to emptying the sump between services. Apparently acceptable according to dealers.....


    Originally posted by krypto View Post

    Unfortunately based on experience that won't save you when you have problems. 0-30w is the wrong oil for our climate.

    If the Toyota specifications are always correct explain to me the crazy temperatures that the transmission reaches without an aftermarket oil cooler. And the 'sealed for life transmission', I change the oil every 50k and it's always showing early signs of degradation. In the end we all do what we think is right, I'll stick with the facts and science which is pretty clear on the engine oil.

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  • Brett1979
    replied
    Really low engine oil viscosity for our climate & non-serviced auto transmissions seems like an attempt to get the car to expensively fail sooner rather than later after the warranty period. Maybe an earlier failure of cars = increased car turnover & increased new car sales. Apple tried it on with a performance zapping IOS update in the past. I know someone who bought a new car after their late model car needed to go into the shop for a new alternator. There’d be more out there like that person.
    Last edited by Brett1979; 23-11-2020, 01:43 PM.

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  • krypto
    replied
    Originally posted by JohnLynn View Post
    I find all this a bit confusing especially as there is contradicting information on the net.
    I always thought that the hotter a liquid becomes the thinner it is, yet oils have additives which make it do the opposite? so thin for easier flow when cold starting yet thicken for protection when hot.
    The link given by krypto above has a chart showing the recommended oil to use in different ambient temperatures, According to that 0W20 covers a range of -40C to +10C, while other websites quote -40 to +20C both would suggest that 404pug's comment about Russia and Australia is on the money.
    I don't know for sure but I cant see that krypto's comment that "under load and at higher ambient temperatures the oil becomes too viscous for the oil pump to maintain adequate output pressure" can be right. I would think the opposite is true? I quoted my old clapped out engine having low pressure at tick over as I think the low pressure is caused by thin hot oil escaping from all the worn bits in the engine and I assume that the Toyota engines are losing pressure because the oil is like gnat's piss and escaping where it shouldn't even in such a close tolerance modern engine.
    I can see why manufacturers specify such thin oils as the thinner the oil the better fuel consumption. Apparently the consumption improvement between 0W20 and 5W30 is around 1.5% so that alone seems an incentive to suggest the thinnest oil possible.
    One other thing that puzzles me is why the ambient temperature is so relevant. I can see that the lower the cold figure is the easier the oil will flow when the engine is cold, so easier starting and more protection when starting from cold as the oil can circulate easier and faster. However at normal running temperatures an engine would be mid 80's C which surely would be the same in most ambient temperatures?
    Good pickup, that was a typo.Under load and temp oil becomes less viscous not more viscous. Liquids become thinner under increased temperature, that's basic science.

    The logic is pretty simple, lower viscosity oil reduces fuel consumption which sells cars. The engine will survive regardless, but wear will be increased. Ambient temperature matters because while the coolant reaches a pretty good steady state, different parts of the engine get a lot hotter than coolant temp.

    Toyota build great cars but they are a manufacturer that needs to cover broad markets and make money.
    Last edited by krypto; 23-11-2020, 10:45 AM.

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  • krypto
    replied
    Originally posted by Pudley View Post


    Given my cars in warranty for the next 5 years I won’t be using anything that’s not recommended or put in by Toyota.
    Unfortunately based on experience that won't save you when you have problems. 0-30w is the wrong oil for our climate.

    If the Toyota specifications are always correct explain to me the crazy temperatures that the transmission reaches without an aftermarket oil cooler. And the 'sealed for life transmission', I change the oil every 50k and it's always showing early signs of degradation. In the end we all do what we think is right, I'll stick with the facts and science which is pretty clear on the engine oil.
    Last edited by krypto; 23-11-2020, 10:44 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnLynn
    replied
    I find all this a bit confusing especially as there is contradicting information on the net.
    I always thought that the hotter a liquid becomes the thinner it is, yet oils have additives which make it do the opposite? so thin for easier flow when cold starting yet thicken for protection when hot.
    The link given by krypto above has a chart showing the recommended oil to use in different ambient temperatures, According to that 0W20 covers a range of -40C to +10C, while other websites quote -40 to +20C both would suggest that 404pug's comment about Russia and Australia is on the money.
    I don't know for sure but I cant see that krypto's comment that "under load and at higher ambient temperatures the oil becomes too viscous for the oil pump to maintain adequate output pressure" can be right. I would think the opposite is true? I quoted my old clapped out engine having low pressure at tick over as I think the low pressure is caused by thin hot oil escaping from all the worn bits in the engine and I assume that the Toyota engines are losing pressure because the oil is like gnat's piss and escaping where it shouldn't even in such a close tolerance modern engine.
    I can see why manufacturers specify such thin oils as the thinner the oil the better fuel consumption. Apparently the consumption improvement between 0W20 and 5W30 is around 1.5% so that alone seems an incentive to suggest the thinnest oil possible.
    One other thing that puzzles me is why the ambient temperature is so relevant. I can see that the lower the cold figure is the easier the oil will flow when the engine is cold, so easier starting and more protection when starting from cold as the oil can circulate easier and faster. However at normal running temperatures an engine would be mid 80's C which surely would be the same in most ambient temperatures?

    Leave a comment:


  • 404pug
    replied
    Also I haven't seen the C2 grade required with the DPF in higher levels than 0_ 30.

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  • 404pug
    replied
    The last sentence says it all. Might be right oil for mid winter Russia but not summer Australia.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pudley
    replied
    Originally posted by krypto View Post

    Personally I wouldn't be using 0W-30, I'd opt for 5W-40 or 10W-40 as a minimum for most Australian conditions.

    Given my cars in warranty for the next 5 years I won’t be using anything that’s not recommended or put in by Toyota.

    Leave a comment:


  • krypto
    replied
    Originally posted by Pudley View Post
    Started at 0w-20. I noticed in my mates 2016 hilux his was 0w-30 as well. I’m unsure if this was an error in the manual or a deliberate change with the new 150kw 1gd-ftv for fuel economy reasons. Regardless the dealer changed it to 0w-30 and cleared the faults. Please see attached extract from my 2020 VX owners manual.
    Personally I wouldn't be using 0W-30, I'd opt for 5W-40 or 10W-40 as a minimum for most Australian conditions.

    Leave a comment:


  • krypto
    replied
    The use of 0W-20 or even 0W-30 oil seems very likely to be an attempt to improve fuel efficiency without full consideration of environmental factors. It is completely inappropriate for the majority of conditions found in Australia. The chart in this short article explains it quite well. https://www.stikkitnow.com/0w20-vs-5w30-motor-oil/

    It is conceivable and probable that under load and at higher ambient temperatures the oil becomes too viscous for the oil pump to maintain adequate output pressure, which in turn triggers the low oil pressure alarm. It would be better and more appropriate to have an alarm light rather than some obscure code to indicate this problem, as in the tractor mentioned above.

    If the problem goes away with higher viscosity oil, then the problem was the oil and not some other issue in the oil cooler.

    As for damage, tricky... hopefully, the alarm light comes on before pressure is low enough to cause damage, which would be normal design practice. If that is not the case, then depending on how long the alarm was active it is possible some premature wear and damage will occur.

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  • Pudley
    replied
    Started at 0w-20. I noticed in my mates 2016 hilux his was 0w-30 as well. I’m unsure if this was an error in the manual or a deliberate change with the new 150kw 1gd-ftv for fuel economy reasons. Regardless the dealer changed it to 0w-30 and cleared the faults. Please see attached extract from my 2020 VX owners manual.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pudley
    replied
    Started at 0w-20. I noticed in my mates 2016 hilux his was 0w-30 as well. I’m unsure if this was an error in the manual or a deliberate change with the new 150kw 1gd-ftv for fuel economy reasons. Regardless the dealer changed it to 0w-30 and cleared the faults. Please see attached extract from my 2020 VX owners manual.

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnLynn
    replied
    Yes I struggle to see how it can be just an oil grade issue, and a good point above about the oil cooler but if this was the case wouldn't there be an oil temperature alarm? Assuming there is a sensor, well there seems to be one for just about everything else.
    I still find the whole topic incredible, how on earth can a new engine suffer from low oil pressure at speed??? I have been working all morning on my International Drott bulldozer, 1970's vintage, the engine is clapped out after many thousands of hours use. It has low oil pressure at idle, the warning lamp flickers but when running above tick over even that has enough pressure to keep the light off. So the thought that a new Toyota engine has an oil warning just astounds me.

    Leave a comment:


  • watsea
    replied
    From the posts here, I am curious about what the new 2020 Prados have for their oil spec. Did it start at 0W-20, then get changed to 0W-30?
    My 2019 Prado has oil spec as fully synthetic 0W-30 C2. I thought that seems thin for most Aussie conditions.

    Leave a comment:


  • Leethal
    replied
    Highly probable the oil grade is not the actual issue, I would think more likely there is an issue with the oil cooler. I know of another brand engine that had similar issues after sustained high load running, issue turned out to be contaminates in the oil cooler from manufacture, this sounds very similar to me.

    Lee

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