TJM Suspension Kit

[Bart70 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Bart70]

Hi,

Am investigating suspension options and had a quote today from a TJM stockist for one of their TJM XGS kits comprising of XGS Series 4000 shocks and XGS Springs (King Springs). Am a bit concerned about the springs quoted.

Firstly, vehicle is 1998 GXL V6 with alloy bull bar only, no winch, no dial battery etc..... Plan is to replace front coils/shocks and rear coils (shocks are relatively new).

I was quoted for the following:
Front Struts 659XS188A
Front Coils (50kg+) 770FR88A
Rear Coils (100kg+) 770RRR88A

These springs are listed as 'Heavy Duty' on their website.....Seems a bit heavy for my car? Nobody else has quoted me HD springs..all have been medium.

Does anybody have any feedback on these or any other TJM springs?.....I have read good things about the 4000 Series shocks...anybody have any thoughts on them?

Am I better off buying King Springs directly?.....What. Item numbers would be desirable from Kings?

Would really appreciate any feedback or info.

Cheers,
Bart.

[bigjimg Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bigjimg]

G'day Bart,
Unless your going to carry constant heavy loads in the back the medium rated springs will be fine.
I have had medium rated springs fitted in mine with the addition of Airbags fitted for when the back gets loaded up for a trip.
In which case I just add 10-15psi to bring her back up to carry the weight. Is an option to consider.

Cheers Jim.

[Bart70 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Bart70]

G'day Bart,
Unless your going to carry constant heavy loads in the back the medium rated springs will be fine.
I have had medium rated springs fitted in mine with the addition of Airbags fitted for when the back gets loaded up for a trip.
In which case I just add 10-15psi to bring her back up to carry the weight. Is an option to consider.

Cheers Jim.

Thanks Jim....That's exactly what I thought. Loading up will be rare for me. I looked through the TJM range and they offer nothing in 50mm lift that isn't HD. Wasn't sure if their HD's were softer than normal or not but didn't really want to get them and have a hard ride.

Seriously thinking about the TJM shocks (4000 series) and getting King Springs in the mediums with 50mm lift. The Kings seem to be getting good reports from others with a similar setup. I believe the TJM Springs are made by Kings (albeit to their own specs possibly) but just a bit concerned that they don't seem to offer an equivalent to the Kings mediums. Don't want to have to have a harsh ride by default. I did find another person who paired up Kings Mediums with TJM shocks and were very happy and heard a couple of reports from users who have been able to do a direct comparison of TJM shocks with OME and believe they are more controlled and keep control longer so this will probably be the path I will venture down unless I hear something to the contrary.

Cheers,
Bart.

[Brett1979 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Brett1979]

Don't get HD's as it'll create a harsh ride unladen, not to mention that HD springs upfront will lift your front up a tad over 3 inches until you fit a steel bar, winch and 2nd battery to drop it a bit over an inch. Not good for your cv's trust me.

I've got a 1998 GXL as well. I have TJM suspension all round. HD springs up front and medium duty at the rear. 95% of the time I'm unladen and the ride is good with no body roll on roundabouts. When loaded up heavy the car rides very nicely. A tad low in the rear but it's a comfortable ride and you don't really feel the weight. In saying that I don't scrape the rear and the car has never ever hit its bump stops since having the suspension fitted in 2012. The standard suspension prior to this used to hit the bump stops in the rear on the highway every time I was loaded up for a trip to Fraser.

I thought the HD duty rear coils are +300kg though. Could be wrong as TJM might've changed things since I bought my suspension. And my MD rears I'm sure we're +150kg at the time.

I've also got 265/75 R16 tyre's fitted and plenty of people have commented on how high my car sits. Even with the bigger tyre's fitted there's plenty of room in the wheel arches.

If you want to see about a million photos of my car on a Cape York trip loaded up to the hilt and with newly fitted TJM suspension, type into the search window Cape York Report August 2012 (I think that's it). While we're at the tip from Page 9 for a couple of pages the car is mostly unladen and sits a lot higher. I was carrying some serious weight on the way up because the wife felt the need to bring bloody everything, on top of all the stuff that we needed to bring, but it still felt great to drive. Got airborne on the Peninsula Developmental Road at 100km/h a couple of times too haha.

Plenty of people on here are quite opinionated of how TJM suspension isn't for them and that's fair enough. Some of them would've used it, some wouldn't have ever used it. I have no complaints myself and have been happy with it both on and off road, heavily laden and unladen. I'll get it again when I'm in need of new suspension one day for my next 4wd. But plenty of good suspension set-ups out there so have a good look around. The Dobinson springs are popular but I just personally hate the aqua colour them plain & simple.

I did have the driver's side shock leak oil from a seal during my 1st Cape York trip in 2012, but I put that down to driving on rough corrugations at the time for an hour at highway speeds and then accidentally getting airborne when I hit a decent sized dip in the road and on the way down compressing those springs and shocks so hard and then rocketing back up and bouncing all over the road afterwards with a massive payload of weight. Took what seemed like an eternity for the bouncing to stop afterwards from the stored energy in those springs.

[Bart70 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Bart70]

Thanks Brett,

I will double check the TJM part numbers quoted again with their web page....but from memory they quoted me for HD Front 100kg Constant Weight, and HD Rear 200kg Constant Weight. They do have one step heavier available in Fronts (but not rears), and one step lighter in both front and rears although lighter is not raised. It might just be in the way TJM describe and market their product.

Everyone else so far has quoted me 50kg front and 0-300kg rear (as opposed to a constant KG rating) - Was just a bit concerned that without a steel bull bar/winch/dual batteries that 100kg front might be too heavy. I was thinking that swapping to Kings might make the decision easier as I KNOW many people with similar setup to me have run medium Kings and found them great. I can also get Kings a reasonable amount cheaper than TJM.

I am yet to stumble across anybody who has reported that they disliked TJM...and particularly noted that there are plenty of fans of both their previous XGS Gold shocks (which I think you may have?) and the more recently released XGS Series 4000 shocks which are a totally different construction and design to the XGS Gold.

Will go and take a look at the pics of your setup. For me its not so much increasing its off-road ability (although some benefit here would be appreciated) as it is about comfort and driveability. The completely stuffed front end I currently have is not making for the most enjoyable driving experience as I negotiate the many patches of patched asphalt and rough pavement that our local Council considers a road!

Cheers,
Bart.

[Brett1979 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Brett1979]

Yeah I've got the XGS Gold shocks. Sounds like TJM have made quite a few changes to their suspension packages. Maybe they just got little call-up for raised springs up front without heavy accessories being fitted. The +100kg springs on the front will be a tad jarring without the weight to settle them down an inch by way of a steel bar at the very least. You'll know man hole covers are there that's for sure when you drive over them and speed bumps in shopping centre car parks would be sh*t house. They'll raise the car too high for your cv's to leave on long term so don't get those springs or you'll be tearing rubber CV boots regularly. The front end just won't have that slight dip when dropping off a speed bump like it should and it'll feel different that's for sure. The next step up heavier rating for the front springs would be to suit a Diesel engine as a Diesel engine is slightly heavier than a petrol engine due to the thicker casting of the block.

The +200kg rear springs will be slightly firm but not too bad on road in my opinion. But unladen off road on a roughish track where you can drive over 40km/h would be a different story and you'd feel the harsh ride in the rear. I think driving with it on road would be something you'd get used to fairly quickly, but it's not ideal if you won't be carrying any weight in the rear or passengers regularly. Mine are +150kg constant and they're comfortable. To me they are anyway. Raising the front up by 3 inches with those HD springs unladen is definitely not a good idea though. Maybe TJM have also limited the spring choices these days to help up sell the cool accessories, who knows...

I'm keen to learn of what you find out though as you research more into this.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey all,

Interesting discussion!

Thought I'd add my 2 cents about the valving of TJM gear. Struts are valved pretty nicely, but shocks are let down by low rebound. The shocks could do with another 1500N, and that bouncing you've reported is because of that low rebound.

In kinematic terms, for an IFS/solid axle 4wd, around 80% of body control comes from the rear shocks, so having the correct valving in rear Prado shocks is vital for how it performs off road when loaded up.

I have found rear 2" twins will always fade under a big load as well.

Food for thought if you want to go down the TJM 2" road!

Best

Mark

[Bart70 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Bart70]

Hey all,

Interesting discussion!

Thought I'd add my 2 cents about the valving of TJM gear. Struts are valved pretty nicely, but shocks are let down by low rebound. The shocks could do with another 1500N, and that bouncing you've reported is because of that low rebound.

In kinematic terms, for an IFS/solid axle 4wd, around 80% of body control comes from the rear shocks, so having the correct valving in rear Prado shocks is vital for how it performs off road when loaded up.

I have found rear 2" twins will always fade under a big load as well.

Food for thought if you want to go down the TJM 2" road!

Best

Mark

Thanks for the input Mark.

In my particular case the focus was initially on new struts/coils (to replace a completely shot front end) and rear coils to match the front lift. Rear shocks, albeit cheapies, are only about 15,000km and less than 12 months old (previous owner). I was prepared to leave the existing rear shocks a little longer (accepting that they impact ride....but anythong should be an improvement on current setup) until they start to show signs of wear and I am confident about what to replace them with.

You seem to have a good grasp of the TJM gear....If I can I would like to pose 2 questions:

1. Do you believe that King Springs (was thinking mediums front and back) are a good match with the TJM shocks/struts?

2. Given that you feel the TJM Struts are valved well but their shocks are lacking....Are we only talking when carrying big loads or is than an issue regardless of load? What shock would you consider pairing with TJM struts?.....or do you think that the mismatch calls for a different matched brand product front and rear?

Keen to hear your thoughts on this and your opinion of King Springs in this equation.

Cheers,
Bart.

[drwormy Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close drwormy]

Might be a good idea to have a close look at your installed springs and look for the part numbers, then compare to the suspension database. TJM springs are most often Kings springs.

1. Do you believe that King Springs (was thinking mediums front and back) are a good match with the TJM shocks/struts?

Bart.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Thanks for the input Mark.

In my particular case the focus was initially on new struts/coils (to replace a completely shot front end) and rear coils to match the front lift. Rear shocks, albeit cheapies, are only about 15,000km and less than 12 months old (previous owner). I was prepared to leave the existing rear shocks a little longer (accepting that they impact ride....but anythong should be an improvement on current setup) until they start to show signs of wear and I am confident about what to replace them with.

You seem to have a good grasp of the TJM gear....If I can I would like to pose 2 questions:

1. Do you believe that King Springs (was thinking mediums front and back) are a good match with the TJM shocks/struts?

2. Given that you feel the TJM Struts are valved well but their shocks are lacking....Are we only talking when carrying big loads or is than an issue regardless of load? What shock would you consider pairing with TJM struts?.....or do you think that the mismatch calls for a different matched brand product front and rear?

Keen to hear your thoughts on this and your opinion of King Springs in this equation.

Cheers,
Bart.

Hey Bart,

As drwormy has stated, TJM have used Kings in the past, but since their takeover I have no idea what they do at the moment.

I can't answer question 1. accurately, as I don't know the coil rates of the 95 spec coils from the Kings catalogue. There are a couple of points for you to consider, i) the 95 is a bit lighter than the 120, and the fronts at least tend to be the shortest and lightest rate 120 spec coils, ii) the kerb weight of the 95 is lower than the 120. I haven't load deflection tested a 95 oem front coil, so I can't comment much on the differences in kerb weight and what it means from an oem starting position.

Regarding question 2., the under damped rear shocks will be an issue when you pack up with a big load. They'll be ok to drive on the street, but they're not something I'd personally use in the bush. For the second part of that question, I'd be looking at something bigger than 2" diameter if you prefer to stay with twin tubes.

Sorry I can't be more specific without accurate numbers!

Best

Mark

[Bart70 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Bart70]

Might be a good idea to have a close look at your installed springs and look for the part numbers, then compare to the suspension database. TJM springs are most often Kings springs.

Where might I find this database?...Is it on this site?

I don't have them installed.....I only have a quote but I have the TJM part numbers and the King Spring part numbers of the King Springs I would like to match to the TJM struts so should be able to do some matching.

I will be talking with TJM tomorrow hopefully to see if they can shed some light on their springs. While I realise TJM springs are made by King Springs, the understanding I have is that they are made to TJM specs, the same as OME springs made by King Springs are to OME specs so are not the same 'spring' as the King Spring product.

What I need to try to understand is if King Spring mediums (which is what I believe I need) are a good match for the TJM struts - Which is what this database should tell me if I have part numbers?

[Bart70 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Bart70]

Hey Bart,

As drwormy has stated, TJM have used Kings in the past, but since their takeover I have no idea what they do at the moment.

I can't answer question 1. accurately, as I don't know the coil rates of the 95 spec coils from the Kings catalogue. There are a couple of points for you to consider, i) the 95 is a bit lighter than the 120, and the fronts at least tend to be the shortest and lightest rate 120 spec coils, ii) the kerb weight of the 95 is lower than the 120. I haven't load deflection tested a 95 oem front coil, so I can't comment much on the differences in kerb weight and what it means from an oem starting position.

Regarding question 2., the under damped rear shocks will be an issue when you pack up with a big load. They'll be ok to drive on the street, but they're not something I'd personally use in the bush. For the second part of that question, I'd be looking at something bigger than 2" diameter if you prefer to stay with twin tubes.

Sorry I can't be more specific without accurate numbers!

Best

Mark

Thanks mark,

Appreciate your time and advice in helping me. One thing I do know is that I can probably scrub OME off the list.....The told me yesterday that there is a 3-4 week wait for their gear and I am off on a trip in 3 weeks and sorta wanted something before then so looks like they are now not an option.

Cheers,
Bart.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey Bart,

I forgot to add that I know for the 120 setup, the front TJM coil (made by King) is around 565lb/in, and is very under-coiled for the strut valving. For the 120 rear, it's the other way around, and the shock is very under-valved for the coils.

I'm hazarding a guess this is the same for the 95 TJM setup, and both front and rear will be running mis-matched setups.

As a suggestion, you could look at Ironman Foamcell Pros, I have been re-valving these for the 120/150/FJ, and there's no reason that valving can't be run in a 95 series, and Foamcell Pros are available for the 90/95. The only catch would be finding appropriate coil rates!

Best

Mark

[Bart70 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Bart70]

Hey Bart,

I forgot to add that I know for the 120 setup, the front TJM coil (made by King) is around 565lb/in, and is very under-coiled for the strut valving. For the 120 rear, it's the other way around, and the shock is very under-valved for the coils.

I'm hazarding a guess this is the same for the 95 TJM setup, and both front and rear will be running mis-matched setups.

As a suggestion, you could look at Ironman Foamcell Pros, I have been re-valving these for the 120/150/FJ, and there's no reason that valving can't be run in a 95 series, and Foamcell Pros are available for the 90/95. The only catch would be finding appropriate coil rates!

Best

Mark

Thanks Mark,

Do you know how the TJM springs compare to King Springs?.....I am assuming they are made by Kings but like OME would be likely to have different specs. I recall seeing a list somewhere that compared the OME fronts (by part number) to the equivalent Kings Springs front and the Kings were noticeably stiffer from memory. I was considering the TJM struts/shocks with Kings branded springs.

I have sent emails and details to some other suppliers for quotes but some have not responded so am becoming limited in what I can do. Vehicle is going away on a trip in 2 and half weeks so time is fast running out to make a decision about which way to jump!

Cheers,
Bart.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Thanks Mark,

Do you know how the TJM springs compare to King Springs?.....I am assuming they are made by Kings but like OME would be likely to have different specs. I recall seeing a list somewhere that compared the OME fronts (by part number) to the equivalent Kings Springs front and the Kings were noticeably stiffer from memory. I was considering the TJM struts/shocks with Kings branded springs.

I have sent emails and details to some other suppliers for quotes but some have not responded so am becoming limited in what I can do. Vehicle is going away on a trip in 2 and half weeks so time is fast running out to make a decision about which way to jump!

Cheers,
Bart.

Hey Bart,

I think you are correct with that assessment in general, the Kings are stiffer than the TJM spec, even though they are made in the same factory!

2.5 weeks is not a lot of time to sort something easily, I would check in with Ironman if you are set on twin tubes and ask about the Foamcell Pros. They are a substantially larger bore and hold a bucket load more oil. I could revalve at least the rears for you assuming you find an appropriate linear rear coil in the 260-280lb/in range. You can prolly get away with Ironmans valving for the struts on the front and run with their 617lb/in coil (TOY038B), as my strut valving is more suitable for a higher rate in the 650-700lb/in range. EFS might also be something worth looking at on short notice.

Best

Mark