Torque Convertor lock up instal

[MRW82]

Hi bill mines an 08 D4D. I'd love a copy of this bible if at all possible, or a lead of where to get one. Pm me if you prefer.

I had missed Jamie's post on page 3, I'll have to recheck my wires to see if I get a match up.

Thanks, mark.

[chardo]

Hi MRW82 and Jamie, Thanks for getting back to me. Just when I thought I was getting my head around the system you have kyboshed me again.
You are right with the lock up wires being green/red, yellow/red.Thats what they are in my bible.
I also found that the wires going to the gearshift lamps are green/red - Neutral and green/white - Park.
I have your plan of attack here in front of me, but now I don't know what you mean when you say it earths out to lock up. I can do most anything on the vehicle, but this has me baffled. I really don't know where to start, I think I could have followed the original plans. Is there any way you can update them for me PLEASE.
I think we need to find out how to get some refreshments to you by the looks at what you have already done here in pradopoint.

What year is your prado MRW82. I have a prado bible here with me. Does my spiel help you out any. I can look up most of the bits from 1996 to 2009 in this book. Doesn't mean I understand it all though. OK thanks for getting back to me and I will go back to another beer while I think about it. Does anyone need to fit a trans oil temp gauge in their prado. I worked out a cheap easy way. Helps a lot to see what is going on in there. Thanks and cheers Bill.

[Davis Dieso]

Hi Jamie, I have been following your super installation for some time now, as I tow a 17 ft Jayco pop top and have the 5th gear slipping in and out quite a bit while travelling. Because my prado is 5 speed there is a difference in wire colouring and placement. I have a Haynes workshop manual I have been looking through and I think I can seen where I am going. I helped my nephew install a lock up kit to his 200 series from Automotive Services. It had a resistor/heat sink looking gadget on it. Is this needed on my model. Has anyone else with a 5speed diesel carried out your installation that you know of???? My last trip to Broome from here near Darwin was not too bad,but knowing about the your lock up kit had me thinking each time 5th gear unlocked on a small incline. My nephew said his was brilliant on the way home to Bunbury, saved some fuel too. OK must go, thanks for the great kit. Cheers Bill.

Hi Bill,
I know what you mean, they are a pain in the but the way they unlock and kick back the gears so early. Cant even get to put the boot into it. It is a heap better with the lockup convertor. It will still kick back, but more when its really necessary rather than when it thinks it needs (too bloody early).
Go back to page 3 and see if the article I wrote about the 5 speed box helps you out at all. The 5 speed is completely different as explained, it earths out to lockup, no power fed. Has 5 plugs not 4. Different coloured wires, etc etc. Check it out and let me know how you go. The diodes I used may not be needed for the 5 speed and depends on how you wire it. It is only required for the "N" and "P" lock out relay. ie: to prevent lock up while in N or P.
Cheers, Jamie
Cheers, Jamie

[MRW82]

Interested to know what wire is for the 5 speeds lock up solenoid too. Been waiting for my auto leckie to get back to me with an answer from his wiring diagram. I've got conflicting info from different sources so have been hesitant to go wildly chopping into it.
I'll get onto him again tomorrow and let you know what he says.

[chardo]

Hi out there, has anybody with a 5 speed auto prado carried out Jamies Lock up Kit. I am about to buy the bits and pieces for it, but I admit that even though I carry out all my own mechanical work on the prado, I don't know much about the relay side of things and how to read the diagram. I have a Haynes workshop manual and I think I have worked out the colours or the wiring needed in the system (different to Jamies, mine 2007). I am up to Darwin today to get the diodes and wiring need,(have bought relays on Ebay like Jamie) so the main thing I need is someone to clarify that I am looking at the right wires, etc. Thanks and cheers Bill.

[chardo]

Hi Jamie, I have been following your super installation for some time now, as I tow a 17 ft Jayco pop top and have the 5th gear slipping in and out quite a bit while travelling. Because my prado is 5 speed there is a difference in wire colouring and placement. I have a Haynes workshop manual I have been looking through and I think I can seen where I am going. I helped my nephew install a lock up kit to his 200 series from Automotive Services. It had a resistor/heat sink looking gadget on it. Is this needed on my model. Has anyone else with a 5speed diesel carried out your installation that you know of???? My last trip to Broome from here near Darwin was not too bad,but knowing about the your lock up kit had me thinking each time 5th gear unlocked on a small incline. My nephew said his was brilliant on the way home to Bunbury, saved some fuel too. OK must go, thanks for the great kit. Cheers Bill.

[Davis Dieso]

Good points Leigh. It is going to be this exact thing I will be going to find out. I personally don't think it will be that dramatic though. I think the clutches would be subjected to similar loads and slip under heavy acceleration. Not very often I drive like that. As I've stated before, I don't experience what i would call, excessive slippage. Doesn't seem to be much different to normal. But, I may have to eat my words down the track, so I'll just see how it goes. Time will tell.
Cheers, Jamie.

[LeighW]

I don't think the lock up will be the issue either, I would be more concerned with
the clutch packs and their not being designed to take the full engine load when
changing gears, same for spider gears etc, if you have a motor spinning at
3000 RPM and gear changes up and you have to suddenly absorb 1000 RPM
with considerable inertia behind it may not be good for the clutches or gears.

I believe if the manufacture unlocks the torque convertor before changing gears
he mostly likely does it for a good reason and without knowing what it is I would
try and keep the same functionality in any after market mods.

Would you rev your motoring to 1500RPM then throw it into drive, no you wouldn't
because as you know it would not be good for the gear box, but with torque convertor
locked and changing gears is more or less the same thing.

If you ride a motor bike then you would most like up shift without using the clutch as with straight cut gears and quick changes where engine speeds quickly fall to match transmission speeds up shifting without using the clutch is normal. You wouldn't do the same down shifting though as your then have to speed the motor up and all you do is lock up the rear wheel and put a hell of a load on everything.

If you only intend to keep the car for a short time then it may not be of concern.

[Davis Dieso]

Correct Leigh, I may stand corrected here but from my research it looks like they all work the same way. I've spent a fair bit of time on you tube, looking up how the lock-up clutches work. All seam to be the same. Some may not, but only seen one design.
My argument is, if the lock-up clutch is that weak, then they would be failing left right and centre. In 11,000km my auto oil hasn't changed a bit. All changes and lock-up work perfect. Only time will tell. J.

[LeighW]

As a matter of interest, I remember seeing an exploded view of my KIA's auto,
the torque convertor lock up, it is a bit hard to see from the diagram but the
torque convert clutch appears to be a circular strip of clutch medium that is
attached to the torque converter, in front of the torque converter is a disc
that is pushed against the torque convert, very similar to a normal clutch
except there is only one friction plate and it appears a lot narrower than a
normal clutch.

[Davis Dieso]

That certainly sounds like a good thing Leigh, A more high tech version of mine. It may present another issue of lots more lock-ups, as its doing it each gear shift. This may cause increased wear. Anyway, it sounds damn good, so I'm sure you will have a following if you get it up and running. keep us posted.
Cheers, Jamie

[Davis Dieso]

I can fully understand the hesitation Mick, for sure. I have no long time span to judge my results, so cannot say whats going to happen?? I have not seen the lock-up plates either, or anything else to go by. However, I assume the lock-up is designed to take the full engine power (full throttle) lock -up. I haven't actually done it, but I assume that if you just flattened the accelerator (and waited)(and waited) it would lock-up eventually. If not then lift the foot slightly would allow it to lock. I realise this isn't going to happen lots of times. They do lock-up thousands of times in there life though and last they do. I have never heard of a lock-up failing in any car. But no doubt the trans specialists have.
Anyway, looks like I'm the guinea pig in this case. I'll definitely post here if anything should happen. Don't want anyone else to have problems.
In answer to your question RE: when it locks up? It only locks up when its in top gear and you reach a certain speed with relevant acceleration. ei: Mine locks up about 83km/hr with light/medium throttle. Heavy throttle then kicks it out when it changes down a gear. Bloody thing does this without even sticking your boot into it. Very annoying. How your meant to power on when all it does is kick back and rev (which once it gets to approx 3000 rpm its all over for them anyway).
It is heaps better with lock-up control I can tell you.
Cheers, Jamie

[delicar]

bloody hell Leigh do you do rocket science in your spare time?
Back to it, I am totally unaware as to when the lock actually works and always thought that this facility was only designed to work say in top gear at a certain speed to provide a direct drive when cruising, a bit like an over drive and any necessary slip during changes is provided by the clutch packs as Jamie has suggested or is this busy little guy cutting in/out all the way thru the change cycles?
cheers Mick.

[LeighW]

I had a look at a unit that appears to have a good reputation, in this unit
it has an ECU that plugs into the ODB port, the ECU monitors the engine
speed and when it reaches per-determined speed for each gear it locks the
torque converter.

At the moment I'll stay a fence sitter, in the future if frustration drives me to it
I'll probably do a similar mode but I will probably include a logic unit to look at the
gear box control. The logic unit will check to see if a gear change is occurring,
if so then turn off the converter lock, once the gear change has been completed
then wait 2 seconds and engage lock again etc.

Cheers
Leigh

[delicar]

I did again confer with my mechanical mates last night, three of them this time and again the answer was no don't do it with the main objection being that I could put the actual lockup plate under too much stress causing it to slip and stuff the box causing an expensive repair which will far out weigh the benefits gained and after having viewed how small these lockup clutches are I tended to concur with them. BUT!!! they're not driving this useless bloody car and putting up with it's stupid idiosyncrasies as I am and neither do they allow for my rather grandpa gentle way in which I drive trying to save a little fuel in this guzzling machine as I do.
I have spoken to a trans guy on this subject who showed me a lockup plate and explained the ramifications on using a locker and he reiterated that common sense prevails and to be discretionary with the switching e.g. after reaching 70 ks or so that all should be ok. I also spoke (again) with Auto trans mob in Vic who sell these things for $495 plus $27 bucks postage ( bit rich I thought) about their product which is still manually switched and was told of all the benefits of fitting these units.SO!! these things have been around for years and if they were to stuff up g/boxes I'm sure we would have heard about it let alone them being taken off the market. If you go to the Auto wholesales site and look in the ask orto section there is a pic there of the old original kit that they made a zillion years ago for the GU Patrol which is simply 1 relay with a switch and a fuse.
So after all my messing around I tend to agree with Jamie and will go for it
cheers Mick