Grande Airbag Retaining after a Lift

[Troy1]

Do you think diff drop is necessary?

[Troy1]

Ok thanks for the info Peter, by the looks of those photos you have posted if you hadnt of put the retaining pin in they probably would pop out. Doesnt look good.

On another note have you heard that the standard compressor on the grande may not be good enough for the extended bags? Another PP member told me this once before?

Cheers

Troy

[Peterpilot]

If you flex up the rear with shocks 600mm or longer, you will need longer airbags because the standard airbags don't like to flex too far, even if they're pinned:

[Peterpilot]

Hey Peter,

Thanks a lot for the info, exactly the sort of stuff I wanted to know. Thats sold me on the extended air bags and the 150 series rear shock 40 odd mm's is 40 odd mm's haha. So I think if i am going to spend the money I might as well get it all done at once.

I have done a few price arounds - 4wd1 is pretty much the same price as Tough Dog with free delivery. And I would order the bags from Air Bag Man direct to make sure I am getting the right ones. ($100 cheaper then 4wd1 @ $895) Anyone found anywhere cheaper?

Thanks Troy

Make sure you get the extended airbags suitable for a 2" lift which is part number OA6011. There seems to be some confusion with part numbers from the Airbag Man:

Our Part number is OA6011S . We have engineered this kit to suit a 2" lift.

At the bottom of page 14 in their catalogue, there are two kits for the Grande: http://www.airbagman.com.au/AirbagApps.pdf
The OA6011S is standard height, the AO6011 is for a 2" lift. Make sure you get the OA6011 kit, both kits cost $895 plus freight from The Airbag Man.

[Troy1]

Hey Peter,

Thanks a lot for the info, exactly the sort of stuff I wanted to know. Thats sold me on the extended air bags and the 150 series rear shock 40 odd mm's is 40 odd mm's haha. So I think if i am going to spend the money I might as well get it all done at once.

I have done a few price arounds - 4wd1 is pretty much the same price as Tough Dog with free delivery. And I would order the bags from Air Bag Man direct to make sure I am getting the right ones. ($100 cheaper then 4wd1 @ $895) Anyone found anywhere cheaper?

Thanks Troy

[Peterpilot]

Not sure about the 150 series rear shocks being longer, if anyone know please let me know
Also I can email the fact/fitting sheet to any one interested.

Troy

Yes, the Tough Dog 150 series rear shock is actually an 80 series landcruiser rear shock and is definitely longer at 622mm extended compared to only 567mm for the Tough Dog 120 series rear shock. Although one of our members has physically measured the Tough Dog 120 series shock at 580mm extended, which makes more sense to me than Tough Dogs own specifications.

The Tough Dog 150 series adjustable rear shock part number is BM401111 http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...nsion-Database

As I said, it was originally designed for the 80 series Landcruiser. However, it is listed in the Tough Dog catalogue for the 150 series Prado and it will fit the 120 series Prado. I actually mentioned this shock to The Airbag Man a while back, suggesting that with an extended length of 622mm, it would be perfect for their airbags since they specify a maximum shock length in their installation instructions of 625mm.

For front struts, the Tough Dog adjustable would be best. Tough Dog list the same strut for the 120 and 150 series, which is a very good length strut for a 2" lift. Part number is BM404400.

[craigm]

Having the Retaining Pins installed gives me peace of mind that the airbags are secure and are'nt going to let me down...

[Troy1]

Hello Everyone,

After finding some inconsistencies in the market for suspension lifts for the Grande and the aftermarket extended air bags I decided to email air bag man directly to find out what the go was, to insure I wasn’t getting extended Air Bags that weren’t right. They seem cheaper if bought directly from them also. Please note some after seeking clarification the info sheet he attached which is out there on the web a lot acctually states "FireStone On AIR", it is an old fact sheet/installation instructions. The product is now made by dunlop.

Below is the reply I got from Air Bag Man:

Dear Troy,


The product we produce is the "AIR BAG MAN -On Air-" this is a complete replacement of the original air suspension by Toyota. The air bags in this kit are manufactured by Dunlop for us to our Specs and we have developed this vastly improved system for your vehicle.

Firestone do not make a suitable air bag for us to use in the replacement kit for the Prado, thus why we use a Dunlop.

I have attached some info about Coil Rite and the On Air .

The price of the On Air system with 2" lift is $895.00 inc GST.

We Have stock ready to go.



Please feel free to call or ask any thing you like. I hope this helps

Second email:

Good Morning Troy ,

Yes your are correct. The sheet that I sent is out of date and has Firestone on it when in actual fact the bag is Dunlop.

Our Part number is OA6011S . We have engineered this kit to suit a 2" lift.

In regards to the Shock selection, there are a number of options and it all depends on the ride quality you are looking for. To match the ride quality of the genuine Prado Grande feel, we suggest maintaining the standard height Tough Dog shocks to suit a 120 series but on the rear we suggest the adjustable Tough Dog shocks to suit the 150 series Prado Grande due to the extra length needed for the lift.


Not sure about the 150 series rear shocks being longer, if anyone know please let me know :-)
Also I can email the fact/fitting sheet to any one interested.

Troy

[Justo]

Haha..thats pretty much it. I don't think anyone has ever had a hassle with retained originals though. Let us know which way you go. Cheers.

[Troy1]

Not entirely correct! I had one of the airbags jump out with the original shocks still in, cases of this are probably rare but would definitely recommend a retaining pin for any sort of lift on original bags. And yes, the the airbagman bags don't even look close to jumping out at any point, they are also a much better design and easy to get back in if something ever did happen!

So basically if you can afford it get the air bag man kit, if not do the retaining pin trick until you can afford the better extended bags (perfect world ) lol Thanks Troy :-)

[Justo]

That's ok mate, yeah it was under full articulation and probably on the high setting at the time which with the combination of extra pressure and full extension she went BANG. I managed to get it back together and back in while out bush! It survived then till I put the longer shocks in and then it promptly popped back out on the first little stretch.

[Peterpilot]

Not entirely correct! I had one of the airbags jump out with the original shocks still in, cases of this are probably rare but would definitely recommend a retaining pin for any sort of lift on original bags. And yes, the the airbagman bags don't even look close to jumping out at any point, they are also a much better design and easy to get back in if something ever did happen!

Thanks Justo, I was under the impression that this only happens with longer shocks fitted.

I assume the airbag popped under full articulation, which means it's the length of the shock that allowed the airbag to dislodge, not necessarily the lift. Even a conventional steel spring will fall out if the shock is long enough.

[Justo]

A 2" lift with standard airbags is quite ok. The standard airbags only dislodge when long rear shocks are fitted, not as a result of a lift. If you limit the rear shock length to about 580mm, you should be fine.

Not entirely correct! I had one of the airbags jump out with the original shocks still in, cases of this are probably rare but would definitely recommend a retaining pin for any sort of lift on original bags. And yes, the the airbagman bags don't even look close to jumping out at any point, they are also a much better design and easy to get back in if something ever did happen!

[Troy1]

Hey Guys thanks for your replys, so sounds like I could save quiet a bit of money by not replacing the airbags? The tough dog offers about 40mm lift? where the bilstiens or by the looks of things OME Sport 150R shocks (that WAY2GO fitted in the rear, are around the 50mm mark?

Ahhh what to do hahah

[Peterpilot]

A 2" lift with standard airbags is quite ok. The standard airbags only dislodge when long rear shocks are fitted, not as a result of a lift. If you limit the rear shock length to about 580mm, you should be fine.

Pinning the standard airbags is ok for shock lengths up to about 595mm, beyond that I believe the standard airbags are too close to length limit unless some sort of spacer is used.

Airbag Man airbags are ok for shock lengths up to 625mm and are long enough not to require pinning or retaining.