Is the 150 showing any signs of cracked inner guards

[Gordon]

Hey ####..

Purchased a 2003 Prado....no warranty no supprises or dissapointments!

did you get the Petrol or the Diesel?

If i want to leave a car stock as a rock, I may consider buying a new Toyota, but i still expect the blame game "you took it offroad/owner abuse" anything extreme or close to it even, many manufacturers want to blame extreme use for doing the damage....

So far so good on the Toyota - they haven't pulled the "extreme use" card as far as I know.. if they ever do that I'm screwed. Nissan and Holden have been pretty nasty I know for sure. Toyota do (as we all know) get shitty over mods though.

[Anth120playdo]

Ok I thought it was a time for an update about this.
First up, I completely disagree with Gordon's assertion that because vehicles are getting more modern and safer that they cannot be made to do what they are marketed to do. I always try to avoid hitting animals however it is not always possible to drive during the day (unexpected delays etc) and when touring but these things do happen. For remote area touring a steel bar is nigh on essential.
I agree that a bullbar will not save you if you hit a camel or a cow, but the odds are far less because they move slowly and more predictably. Kangaroos can accelerate quickly and are completely unpredictable. I hit two big roos last year on the way to the Cape driving 30 kms under the speed limit at dusk because I had an unexpected delay earlier on which meant I couldn't make my destination before dark. Sometimes shit happens. An alloy bar would have been destroyed and the trip would have been over before it began.

Why should I expect to have my cake and eat it too? Because I paid $75000 for a Toyota, and not $50000 for a Nissan or Mitsubishi. If I didn't want to do remote touring then I would have gone and bought a sedan rather than an expensive 2.3 tonne ladder frame, live rear axle slug.

Ok with that out of the way, time for an update on my guards. Toyota Australia won't come to the party because of their pendulum theory, whereby they believe that the weight of the bar causes the front chassis to flex which puts stress on the bodymount and causes flexing of the guards. Now, in accordance with the trade practice's act Toyota have to prove this theory rather than simply stay 'not covered due to fitment of non-genuine accessories' and if I went to court I would win.
ARB are willing to go in to bat for me, however they need written denial of the claim which is proving frustrating.

Unfortunately for me I am out of time as I am supposed to be going to the Kimberley next month and the cracks MUST be repaired, so I have already booked it in with a repairer. All items will be removed from the engine bay side of the guard, as will the fender and grill to find any other cracks that may be there.

I must say that I am very very dissapointed in general with the attitude of Toyota Australia towards their customers, not just in relation to this particular issue but many others with the previous 120 Prado and 200 Landcruiser. I have never known a company that displays such arrogance towards their customer base. I can see their approach is being driven by bean counters however it is very short sighted and they are doing enormous damage to the brand. They should have just fixed my bloody cracks, because then I would have been more likely to trade up to a 200 cruiser in a few years time. My old man was considering a Toyo to replace his Range Rover Sport - not any more. Likewise a mate of mine is looking at doing a buildup on a tourer and has now excluded the Prado from his considerations. Two more I know are considering Disco 4s when they never would have previously gone Land Rover. I realise Toyota still sell thousands of the things but will it last if they keep this sort of thing up?[

I am also discusted with TOYOTAS handling of these issues.
I had a new 2011 sr5 hilux, it broke a c/v at 9000klms, Toyota blamed the "modified suspension" it had 1'' at the front only.
Didnt want to know about the fact that i found the front diff missalighned, drivers side was up around 20mm.....
I thought at that time, whats the point of having a new Vehicle with warranty? if they just want to blame Mods?
So i sold it 6 months old and purchased a 2003 Prado....no warranty no supprises or dissapointments!
I know it will need some work but I saved $40,000 so thats ok i can handle a lot of work for 40k.
If i want to leave a car stock as a rock, I may consider buying a new Toyota, but i still expect the blame game "you took it offroad/owner abuse" anything extreme or close to it even, many manufacturers want to blame extreme use for doing the damage....

[Anth120playdo]

For the sake of this healthy argument, I disagree with the sentiment that these cars are becoming less suitable for off road use. It all depends on what your expectations are.

It's clearly demonstrable that these things are getting more and more capable - even in stock trim - than they ever were before. Toyota are doing an incredible job of improving abilities whilst simultaneously improving comforts... urban users will always buy our cars, hell they even buy 70 series occasionally so these buyers need to be considered in design.

And make no mistake that we benefit from the large volume of users. if the only people using these things were hard core bushies then the lower production volumes would be reflected by higher purchase costs. There'd be less opportunity for experience-based refinement to reliability and durability. There'd be less frequent model revisions, fewer aftermarket items etc etc etc. You don't want to be the owner of an uncommon vehicle.

So they look a bit swish, they get scratched, you get mud in the carpet. I'd rather drive a car that keeps me safe & comfortable than a tin box that I can hose out.

As for the ability to take accessories like bullbars & stiff springs... these are modern, high tech 4wd vehicles. Don't try to turn them into trucks. If you want an old-style 4wd & all the durability that comes with it, don't buy a Prado, buy a troopy. You'll have to drive 2/3s the pace but will still go deaf, your back will go, your fillings will fall out, you'll be exhausted by the sun pouring in through the windows and reflecting off the bonnet (if you haven't driven a troopy in the desert then just trust me it's like being on snow but hotter) & fatigued beyond belief. Great trip. Body panels didn't crack. Yay I'll tell my chiropractor but he'll get the shits cos I'm shouting & he can't understand me anyway cos I'm missing teeth.

And if you are still interested in the bush you'll go buy a Prado - just drive the damned thing don't mess around with it - and you'll never look back.

Just started reading this thred, i agree.... and i dont even have many fillings......hahahahahaha..... funny man

[Dreamer2]

Thanks Skywalkerrun,

If the 120 front axle limit is just 1290kg and my stock weight was 1120kg; then that only leaves 170kg for bar, second battery, winch & winch cable. There would be thousands of Prados that exceed this limit. What sort of front axle weights are the 150 series guys running at?

Hi Peterpilot. Had my 150 auto D4D GXL weighed today. Bog standard vehicle apart from Toyota towbar and T150 transfer case guard. Full full tank and I weigh about 90kgs.

Front 1220 kgs
Rear 1240 kgs
Total 2450 kgs

Good to know my starting point and what effect accessories may add.
I'd be interested to hear what axle weights others have with accessories fitted.

[Gordon]

Gotta say these Southeasterners have got me interested in the Blue Rag track - looks bewdiful. Love that country - used to live in Vic.

[Gordon]

Gordon make sure if your ever up this way to give us a yell, I'd love to see the "light and squishy" side by side with my "lift and firm" set up. Would be a great way to quantify the difference, if any, in off road ability. After all, isn't that what we're both trying to achieve, a vehicle we can use and enjoy in a way that you just can't in a family sedan.

Oh, and Schniff, I'm still keen to hear Toyota's reply. Can't believe they've left you cold.

Will do mate, probably next winter I'll make another pilgrimage to your warm sunny town. Conversely if you're over this way drop us a line.

[Gordon]

can't I say both?

[D4D]

Nah bros too much weight in the back ;p

Make up your mind, it was too much weight in the front before

[Dusty74]

Gordon make sure if your ever up this way to give us a yell, I'd love to see the "light and squishy" side by side with my "lift and firm" set up. Would be a great way to quantify the difference, if any, in off road ability. After all, isn't that what we're both trying to achieve, a vehicle we can use and enjoy in a way that you just can't in a family sedan.

Oh, and Schniff, I'm still keen to hear Toyota's reply. Can't believe they've left you cold.

[Gordon]

Oh it was the aftermarket suspension that made me lift a wheel here
Cheers Andrew

Nah bros too much weight in the back ;p

And no, no chainsaw. Would've taken longer anyway.

[D4D]

At the risk of further criticism here's one where my wheels did come off the ground, well me and my friends.

No chainsaw?

[smakb]

Oh it was the aftermarket suspension that made me lift a wheel here



Glad I got that worked out now

Cheers Andrew

Andrew I can see your problem here.... Not enough weight over the front axle to pull the front end down.......


Steve

[AJ120]

Then there's the "real offroad" stuff: the stiffer the suspension, the less wheel travel you have. Look at some of those videos of cars with wheels in the air - that almost never happens to me as I'm able to get maximum articulation out of the thing.

Oh it was the aftermarket suspension that made me lift a wheel here



Glad I got that worked out now

Cheers Andrew

[Gordon]

my battery is in the rear in the 120, no problems at all.

Cheers Andrew

Mine too - being a throwback to my experience in my first car I've been too scared (and too tight since I already have the setup) to stick one under the bonnet of the 150... I do have one installed under the bonnet of the new 150 work car I just bought though and will be watching (and reporting on) that space folks!

[Gordon]

Well, I choose bottoming out because it actually doesn't happen very often, the Prado is well protected anyway. With the 120 I took off the guards, bashed out the dents and repainted them a few times - replaced the engine & gearbox guards once too. I'd rather do that than modify because...

On the other hand, once you've raised and stiffened your suspension you have to live with it all the time. Stiff suspension on bitumen is awesome but on open dirt roads gets pretty tiring day to day from comfort and control points of view*. Then there's the "real offroad" stuff: the stiffer the suspension, the less wheel travel you have. Look at some of those videos of cars with wheels in the air - that almost never happens to me as I'm able to get maximum articulation out of the thing.

As I mentioned earlier I'm lucky now with the 150 as the under body clearance is much tidier and the bigger tyres means I seldom bottom out at all, even on the roughest rock crawls. Actually it's a damned remarkable vehicle given the apparently minor makeover.

At the risk of further criticism here's one where my wheels did come off the ground, well me and my friends. Note the LSD jump into action...

PS *just thought I'd better qualify this to avoid another debate about suspension: I have a very light setup so can get away with light springs and damping. I appreciate that people with heavier setups find the OEM suspension too soft and wallowy on high speed open dirt roads.