The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

[MelbournePark]

Guys, it is good to see you doing some research before laying down the cash but
batteries are a consumable, if you actually use the system in 4 to 5 years you'll
be looking at replacing them for reliability and they'll probably be down to around
the 50% capacity anyway unless your only going to discharge them to 80% SOC etc.

Just buy a good brand at a good price if you can, and get out there and use them.

As for cracks in guards, I know the roo advocates putting the battery in the back, others only using small batteries etc.

From my experience if you drive to the conditions, lower your tyres pressures etc you'll avoid the issue. Mate has over 120000Kms in a 120 having run both marines pros and Optimas on some of the worst roads in Australia with no issues. I have similar setup, Optima for crank and Marine Pro for aux with no issues, many members in 4X4 club same story, only one I know of who has had problems drives like a lunatic, won't lower his tyre pressures and has cracking in both guards.

Same guy has creases in both front guards which many suspect was caused by him jumping the car, his story is someone backed into his bull bar, funny that the bull bar isn't damaged.

OK, so 4-5 years. And it'll be 50%. And that's just for a starting battery.

We should all insist on getting $150 back from Toyota for pulling out our new crap factory supplied Panasonic batterity, and then putting in a Lithium replacement starting battery. Cost for a suitable one would be $450. Or less. Changeover would therefor be $300.

It would last over 12 years, maintain is life much better, weigh less than 3kg, provide under bonnet space, run better at much higher temps and not suffer sulphure issues, and would take charge several times quicker plus you could use more of its capacity for drain issues like fridges.

The thought that batteries are a consumable is a bit annoying! Because with Lithiums, many people might never have to change their battery. And if they did, a lady could do it, because they are so light - a Lithium starting battery providing 700CCA weighs under 3kg. And those 700CCA are more like 840 compared to a lead acid.

While manufacturers chase low fuel rates via weight reduction, its a shame they don't spend extra money and give us a decent Lithium standard and also save some weight. But they don't even do that with a hybrid car 's starter motor...

[krypto]

Good info on the Exide, my current battery is 253mm wide so the Exide should fit. The auxiliary is 80ah and has never given problems running my fridge on long trips away.

I use the diode / fuse; both my batteries are now nearly 4 years old and going strong.

[Nightrod111]

I just squeezed a 92AH Exide MSDC24 into my TD 150 prado. I needed to push the aircon pipe and bracket out a little, but it works!!
http://www.exidebatteries.com.au/bat...cycling/MSDC24

[drivesafe]

The trick is not so much which battery but how you charge and use that battery.

I can remember when Leigh first posted up details of his FUSE and I was adamant that the lower voltage was fine, but was unaware of just how low the voltage dropped in the then new Toyotas.

LeighW's FUSE was a big benefit then and even now, with the voltage levels raised in the newer Toyotas, with Leigh’s FUSE, you can use any type of battery and get good charging and use results.

Personally, I use nothing but Optima Yellowtops but the cost does not suit all.

[LeighW]

Guys, it is good to see you doing some research before laying down the cash but
batteries are a consumable, if you actually use the system in 4 to 5 years you'll
be looking at replacing them for reliability and they'll probably be down to around
the 50% capacity anyway unless your only going to discharge them to 80% SOC etc.

Just buy a good brand at a good price if you can, and get out there and use them.

As for cracks in guards, I know the roo advocates putting the battery in the back, others only using small batteries etc.

From my experience if you drive to the conditions, lower your tyres pressures etc you'll avoid the issue. Mate has over 120000Kms in a 120 having run both marines pros and Optimas on some of the worst roads in Australia with no issues. I have similar setup, Optima for crank and Marine Pro for aux with no issues, many members in 4X4 club same story, only one I know of who has had problems drives like a lunatic, won't lower his tyre pressures and has cracking in both guards.

Same guy has creases in both front guards which many suspect was caused by him jumping the car, his story is someone backed into his bull bar, funny that the bull bar isn't damaged.

[Anth120playdo]

Ac delco. & excide. Makes me feel sick, the work failures comes to mind.

You should stick with century/yuasa & optima.

[Schneider]

For what it is worth, i just picked up the Exide LCS24-86 battery direct from Exide for $130. Not sure how it will go but I thought it was worth a try for that sort of money.

[150Pete]

Thanks Pete. In my battery investigations, I checked a price with someone who services my cars, and he said that he could only sell car batteries at a good discount, and he recommended that the place to buy such batteries was from a caravan place. Which is where you got yours. As far as the diesel goes, I think the space restrictions due to the hoses are just as severe in the diesel as they are in the petrol. I've been looking at camper trailers and I noted that some use AC Delco batteries, they have a good range which seem not to be dual, but are orientated as just deep cycle.

I think with Exide (the battery specified in the Piranha battery holder specs), Exide seem to have a new range now of leisure cycle batteries, many of which seem more dual than purely deep cycle. Two that might fit a Prado well are the following:
AGM LCG24-92 20.2kg 260mm 92AH
Calc LCS24-86 19kg 260mm 86AH

Those both are 260mm long, so they may fit without hitting the pipes. They are pretty light at 20 and 19kg too. And their Amp hours sound good at 86 and 92. The Calc one would compete probably with a Marine Pro battery (much mentioned on this thread).

I wonder now about AGM with under bonnet temperatures, and price performance. Many reports say that AGM doesn't like heat. While AGM lasts longer, perhaps its not the best getting blasted by engine heat and even turbo radiated heat inside a diesel engine bay? With the price premium for AGM, I now suspect a battery likes yours is the conservative choice.

I suspect too that high AH are not such a good thing, despite us all wanting it! I suspect for a spare battery to run a fridge etc from the front of a Prado, a deep cycle is what you want but then a proper deep cycle has constant thick lead plates (hence the poor starting power). The problem with thick plates is that the battery gets heavy relative to its Amp Hour rating.

So while I listed those Exides above as having very high Amp Hour for their weight, I guess that must really mean and ignoring technical improvements (and that does still happen), that a higher Amp Hour per kg must mean that lead plates must be thinner. Hence they will not last as long if you cycle them a lot.

So really - for long life and better cycling ability, perhaps its best to look for a battery that is 260mm, weighs up to lets say 22kg (in respect of the potential for a risk of going heavier in a Prado) and that does not have many AH. I've criticised the Optimas here but for AGMs, they fit that bill - they are heavy for their AH capacity. But their high cranking amps makes me think there are better choices ... and some makers publish how thick their plates are. For AGMs though, such batteries are quite costly.

So value wise I think something likes yours makes more sense at $135, you can't go wrong as long as it is built to takes shocks, and I think the caravan suppliers would know true deep cycles batteries and what is the best value going.

As far as the Exide battery that Piranha recommended to me for the Petrol model (260mm) @ $217.00, from what I have been told (battery world) the AC Delco one I ended up getting for $135 (82A/H) (battery world started @ $230, then got them down to $180 for the same battery) said it was the same as the Exide with a different sticker. As I'm not personally a battery expert, I just took their word.
As Far as AGM battery's go, I was advised by both Piranha & Battery world NOT to use under the bonnet, due to heat, as you already mentioned.
So I guess another option for you (if suits) would be just to locate the battery in the rear of the car and run your wiring to it from the front (maybe a small voltage drop over the distance) but you then could go AGM and as big as you can fit, no issue to weight in the front or AC pipes & trays etc.
So good luck, sure you'll make the correct choice based on your wants & needs. Cheers Pete

[MelbournePark]

Thanks Pete. In my battery investigations, I checked a price with someone who services my cars, and he said that he could only sell car batteries at a good discount, and he recommended that the place to buy such batteries was from a caravan place. Which is where you got yours. As far as the diesel goes, I think the space restrictions due to the hoses are just as severe in the diesel as they are in the petrol. I've been looking at camper trailers and I noted that some use AC Delco batteries, they have a good range which seem not to be dual, but are orientated as just deep cycle.

I think with Exide (the battery specified in the Piranha battery holder specs), Exide seem to have a new range now of leisure cycle batteries, many of which seem more dual than purely deep cycle. Two that might fit a Prado well are the following:
AGM LCG24-92 20.2kg 260mm 92AH
Calc LCS24-86 19kg 260mm 86AH

Those both are 260mm long, so they may fit without hitting the pipes. They are pretty light at 20 and 19kg too. And their Amp hours sound good at 86 and 92. The Calc one would compete probably with a Marine Pro battery (much mentioned on this thread).

I wonder now about AGM with under bonnet temperatures, and price performance. Many reports say that AGM doesn't like heat. While AGM lasts longer, perhaps its not the best getting blasted by engine heat and even turbo radiated heat inside a diesel engine bay? With the price premium for AGM, I now suspect a battery likes yours is the conservative choice.

I suspect too that high AH are not such a good thing, despite us all wanting it! I suspect for a spare battery to run a fridge etc from the front of a Prado, a deep cycle is what you want but then a proper deep cycle has constant thick lead plates (hence the poor starting power). The problem with thick plates is that the battery gets heavy relative to its Amp Hour rating.

So while I listed those Exides above as having very high Amp Hour for their weight, I guess that must really mean and ignoring technical improvements (and that does still happen), that a higher Amp Hour per kg must mean that lead plates must be thinner. Hence they will not last as long if you cycle them a lot.

So really - for long life and better cycling ability, perhaps its best to look for a battery that is 260mm, weighs up to lets say 22kg (in respect of the potential for a risk of going heavier in a Prado) and that does not have many AH. I've criticised the Optimas here but for AGMs, they fit that bill - they are heavy for their AH capacity. But their high cranking amps makes me think there are better choices ... and some makers publish how thick their plates are. For AGMs though, such batteries are quite costly.

So value wise I think something likes yours makes more sense at $135, you can't go wrong as long as it is built to takes shocks, and I think the caravan suppliers would know true deep cycles batteries and what is the best value going.

[150Pete]

Your install looks great, and you did it for a great price too.

I looked up the description for the Piranha battery box, and it described the battery for the Prado box, as being the bigger version of your battery. I think that their recommended battery would hit piping, and also, that would weigh an extra few kg. Your battery retails for $200 too, so for $135, you've done great. I like your choice of battery too.

Cheers MelbournePark
The bigger battery you speak of May be the one to suit the disel (300mm), mine is v6 petrol and restricted by P/S res, I got the battery from More Products in Bayswater Vic, 1/13 Gatwick Rd, Bayswater N VIC 3153 (03) 9735 9118, ask for Kevin, they are company that supply caravan supplies, they also have the bigger battery (300mm, 100 A/H) to suit the disel Prado for $142.00 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251391191...84.m1423.l2649

[MelbournePark]

Yeah as Aussie Andy said it's a good way to keep spare batteries in stock, a crew I used to work for always had 2 Cat batteries and acid to go sitting spare as we were running around 10 units that used them. I gather they will last almost indefinitely until the acid is added.
...
Cheers Andrew

I read that with lots of those, they actually "condition the plates" , then drain the battery. And they supply the fluid in the bottles. So with lots of them, they do have a shelf live.

[MelbournePark]

Your install looks great, and you did it for a great price too.

I looked up the description for the Piranha battery box, and it described the battery for the Prado box, as being the bigger version of your battery. I think that their recommended battery would hit piping, and also, that would weigh an extra few kg. Your battery retails for $200 too, so for $135, you've done great. I like your choice of battery too.

[150Pete]

Hi
this is my first post, so if I've F#@ked up, or placed in the wrong place, sorry, let me know.
I haven't seen a lot of V6 Petrol 150 Dual Battery set ups on here, and as I just did my own over the week end I though I would share, maybe someone will find it helpful (or amusing)

Battery: AC Delco HCM24SMF 82 A/H, $135.00
Tray: Piranha BTP150P, approx. $190.00 (I was originally against this tray only due to price, but ended up using it, was very easy to install)
Management system: Piranha DBE140S, Inc. 6 pole fuse block
Wiring loom: Piranha 4 meters
all up Inc. volt meter, USB, connecters/terminals wires, etc. was approx. $600

I have run power to the rear for fridge, lights etc. from fuse block, also run power to dash for USB, UHF & Volt meter.
I ran directly from battery (fused) to Anderson plug at towbar.
all in all happy with the set up, would have liked a bigger A/H battery, but was restricted being a petrol and having the power steering res to deal with.

Not sure if I did the upload of the photos correctly?? Happy for advise if there's any easier way.

http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/pe...%20150%20Prado

This thread is way off topic..
Back on track please.

[MelbournePark]

And further drive safe - the reason batteries typically wear out is due to the plate issues. The acid doesn't leave the battery. So there's no point topping up with acid - plus its dangerous stuff and if that was part of battery maintenance, the lead acid battery would look quite different and be a lot more expensive.

Putting in extra acid yourself would not achieve a chemical benefit, and would likely corrode things (obviously not pure lead because that is not effected).

And battery acid and hence specific gravity varies between manufacturers and their individual products. There's a considerable range. Do you get it? Battery acid is not fixed at at 35%, or even the specific gravity.

I myself have had stratification cause battery failure - IMO. My wife used to drop my son off at the train which was a two minutes away. The Lexus drains heaps of energy, and IMO the battery never got charged properly. The battery tested OK with a meter battery tester (Lexus wouldn't supply a new one), but it was no good. At the bottom of a battery, you can get denser more acidic fluid - the stratification term. Short runs with the electric seaters going full bore, the radio and all the fans going, all the cameras and screens - and a very short trip - the perfect stratification scenario. She'd come back and park the car and it would sit until the next day. So the denser acid would have sat down there. And more to the point, the battery was several years old.

So even inside a battery, the acid level can get uneven. It should be kept even. By properly charging. I got around that issue IMO by putting in an Optima. Because its AGM, it won't stratify. And you can sit there for ages with the engine off and using your computer and phone, and not damage the battery, because an Optima is more than a starting battery. Its also bad for an engine to do short runs, so thank goodness that all stopped! It now gets longer runs. And I do charge the Optima now and then with a fancy charger. I'm not sure though whether the alternator provides the Optima with enough volts - maybe it doesn't. Hmmm